[Ghostavo]

So she would be better off actually stealing a couple of CD's off the nearest retail store than actually downloading them.

Also, the original fine was not 22.000 dollars, it was 220.000 dollars.

[Luis Dias]

All this is required you see, because that's the law we have, so it is by definition morally correct, Ghostavo.

[Vertigo 7]

or the damn sensible thing would have been for her to pay for the stuff in the first place and she wouldn't have been in that mess to begin with. She broke the law, that's all there is to it. Courts found her guilty, twice even, and now shes screwed. That's generally what happens to you when you break the law.

Interesting thing happened over the weekend. My father is IT inventories manager for a local hospital. Well Saturday, one of the dock loaders decided to come in and break into his office and stole about 110k worth of laptops and stuff. Hes caught on tape, the screw driver he used to break in was recovered, he was seen by several witnesses... guess what? this guy is done. i expect hes going to get at least a 15 year sentence in prison on a felony charge. And ya know what? Good ****in riddance. One more piece of trash out of the way.

[Luis Dias]

Listen to the man! Appeals mean nothing to him but bad manners!

[Ghostavo]

Searching for a little while more, I've found some inconsistent info on the matter.

1. The woman is from Minnesota.
2. The woman got 24 songs illegally.
3. Minnesota's laws regarding pirating are as follow: 325E.17 and 325E.18
4. The punishment for both is 325E.201

So, for 24 songs the maximum she could be sentenced with would be... 25.000 dollars, about 9 times what she was originally charged with and 76 times what she was later charged.

What am I reading wrong?

[Vertigo 7]

Searching for a little while more, I've found some inconsistent info on the matter.

1. The woman is from Minnesota.
2. The woman got 24 songs illegally.
3. Minnesota's laws regarding pirating are as follow: 325E.17 and 325E.18
4. The punishment for both is 325E.201

So, for 24 songs the maximum she could be sentenced with would be... 25.000 dollars, about 9 times what she was originally charged with and 76 times what she was later charged.

What am I reading wrong?

the date maybe? she first went to court in 2007, then later in 2009. those statutes are dated for 2010

*edit

the other thing too was the story said she was fined for each song. So she was prolly brought up on multiple charges, not just 1.

[Ghostavo]

the date maybe? she first went to court in 2007, then later in 2009. those statutes are dated for 2010

I've also thought of that, but these date from 1993, almost 15 years before.

As for being brought for multiple charges, that's really strange since the law clearly states multiple infringements as a single charge. And even that wouldn't explain the later 80.000 dollar per song fine.

[Luis Dias]

I think it's a mere case of assholery squared.

[Vertigo 7]

the date maybe? she first went to court in 2007, then later in 2009. those statutes are dated for 2010

I've also thought of that, but these date from 1993, almost 15 years before.

As for being brought for multiple charges, that's really strange since the law clearly states multiple infringements as a single charge. And even that wouldn't explain the later 80.000 dollar per song fine.

I'm pretty sure people can be brought up on multiple counts of the same charge. double jeopardy wouldn't apply. You can't kill 10 people and only face 1 murder rap.
*edit
That all depends on the prosecution and how they want to bring up the charges.

[Luis Dias]

That's silly. The law clearly stipulates what you should be fined for for multiple pirated songs.

And it still doesn't explain the last sentence. You are really defending the indefensible, but that isn't newsworthy for two or three pages ago.

[Ghostavo]

So why does the law state and I quote:

325E.201 VIOLATIONS; PUNISHMENT.
A violation of section 325E.17 or 325E.18 is a felony and is punishable upon conviction by:

(1) a fine of not more than $100,000, or imprisonment for not more than two years, or both, if the violation is a first offense involving more than 100 but not more than 1,000 sound recordings or more than seven but not more than 65 audio-visual recordings;

(2) a fine of not more than $250,000, or imprisonment for not more than five years, or both, if the violation is a second or subsequent offense, or involves more than 1,000 sound recordings or more than 65 audio-visual recordings; or

(3) a fine of not more than $25,000, or imprisonment for not more than a year and a day, or both, for any other violation.

Emphasis with bold.

Going back to the topic, isn't it silly to consider piracy much worse than actual theft?

[Vertigo 7]

how am i supposed to know what happened in the court rooms? you'll have to find her court dockets if you're really that interested or track her down and ask her yourself. If it was unlawful, im pretty sure the court wouldn't have been able to pass the sentence. That lil story hardly covers everything that happened during her trials.

[Luis Dias]

Bull****.

[Vertigo 7]

wot ever, its all pure speculation at this point.

[Klaustrophobia]

i got some wonderful insight into the legal system by my friend's roommate.  he is a lawyer, with an engineering BS degree.  according to him, legal proceedings are NOT based on logical application of the actual laws.  it is based on the eloquence of the speaker and their ability to wow the judge/jury with usually irrelevant rhetoric.  and this is what law school teaches and trains them to do. 

so you'll forgive me if i'm not swayed by the "if it was illegal it wouldn't have happened to her in court" argument.

[Vertigo 7]

well like i said, i have no idea what happened in her trials. We can all sit around the camp fire and guess until we die of starvation but until someone presents the documents, we'll never know. I'm not going to speculate any further as to what happened. What i do know is she got found guilty, twice and got hit with a large fine.

[Luis Dias]

Yeah, and all this discussion about the morals of fining a woman 1.9 million dollars for making a copy of a disk is completely "speculative" until we all know these documents.

/SARCASM

[Vertigo 7]

well what do you want me to say? i've already stated that i have no sympathy for her. i have no idea how the 1. wotever million fine was arrived at. And i dare say, neither do you.

[Luis Dias]

Yes, you made it clear that you don't give a damn. Well I just hope you'll never get to see the other end of the barrel for any "crime" that you may end up committing that you weren't even aware was such a big fuss.

[Vertigo 7]

again as ive stated, ignorance of the law is no excuse. If i do something illegal and get busted for it, its my own damn fault, plain and simple. Unlike some people, i'll take responsibility for my actions, what ever they may be.

PS i am officially over this convo.