Poll

Which Beam Sizing do you Prefere?

The old, retail sizing
20 (20.6%)
The new, Hades sizing
43 (44.3%)
Mixed reaction
34 (35.1%)

Total Members Voted: 97

Author Topic: Beam Sizing  (Read 28560 times)

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Offline mjn.mixael

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My two cents.. I'd like to see the glows (ball of energy) at least slightly larger than the beam width itself... Not a whole lot.. just enough to see it.
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Offline Hades

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They are, actually. Aside from the LRed which I need to make a bit larger.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Then I'm good. I haven't checked in quite some time... been too busy debugging FSPort...  :nervous:
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Offline Flipside

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I prefer the more discreet Hades sizes for the main part, particularly in the case of the SGreen in the first shot :) Possibly the Shivan ones could be a bit larger, since their beams are considerably more dangerous?

 

Offline bigchunk1

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I... just... don't... get it.


I don't know how to reason.

Then I'm good. I haven't checked in quite some time... been too busy debugging FSPort...  :nervous:

They're in the previous pages of this thread :wtf:

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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Um.. based on the dates in the thread and the dates on SVN.. I don't think those pictures are the most recent.
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Offline Commander Zane

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I... just... don't... get it.
*BIG*
*small*
I don't know how to reason.
My mind broke.

 

Offline Retsof

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Uhm... I think you lost me there.
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Offline bigchunk1

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Well, I mean it's like taking something beautiful and making it smaller the the point where it's hard to see. That's what I was trying to show. I underestimated the power of lvlshot, but anyways... If you don't get it, just take it as bad comedy.

Um.. based on the dates in the thread and the dates on SVN.. I don't think those pictures are the most recent.

How can we all be talking about the same thing when only team members have svn access (if i'm not mistaken), especially if that thing is always changing? I would like to consider only the released Mediavps3612 for reference and make commentary based on that. However, someone can post more recent tables/screenshots as proposed solutions of course.

Consider taking another look at the screenshots on this thread, the warmup effect has undergone quite a change in size. To me, it seems small enough to the point where the bulb effect isn't really part of the beam anymore.
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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What's the use in even discussing this is we can't discuss what we are working on?

We can talk about the past (3.6.12) all you want.. it's not going to change what is in 3.6.12. No, what we are discussing is what will be in the next MediaVPs. So it stands to reason that we can talk about what is in the current SVN as a form of release candidate.
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Offline bigchunk1

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No no no, (as we discussed on IRC).

You can discuss whatever you want, who am I to say otherwise? If you change anything from Mediavp3612 just introduce it as a change from Mediavp3612. As far as I am aware, the poll is about beam sizes in Mediavp3612 vs retail. If that were not the case, the poll will be inconsistent since we would be voting on something which constantly changes. Also, the SVN is not public, so people would be discussing two different things which would really start causing confusion.

So, if some change is made to the tables and one wants to talk about it, introduce it as a change up for discussion in this thread. That's all.
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 

Offline Zacam

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(now has Hammertime playing in his head, thanks guys!)

The discussion. As it stands from my point of reason it thus:

   :: The MediaVPs as there are released (including the 3.6.12 Update VPs which is the latest Official version for 3.6.12), have differently sized beams vs 3.6.8/3.6.10.

   :: While the 3.6.12 sizes are not the same as the 3.6.8/3.6.10, the beams themselves are more a match to the Retail beam sizes.

   :: The sizing of the Retail Beam-glows/beam warm-up effect (especially for the Shivan beams, we will ignore the Retail effect calling for using the thrusterglow bitmap) is more about what people were apparently complaining about being broken. (We will forgo the fact that some people interpreted it as the beams in general, we'll also forgo that some people were under the impression that 3.6.8/3.6.10 were thought to be Retail sizes when they were not).

   :: The current consultation that the FSU is gathering, and what this poll is about (from again, my point of understanding) is whether or not people are okay with (by majority) the fact that the Current 3.6.12 beam-glow/beam-warm up effect, in being aesthetically scaled to the beam width, is acceptable or not.

   :: Most of the feedback seems to indicate, with the exception of a few of the larger beams, that it is. The preference seems close to almost split between "Mixed Reaction" (those that are maybe okay with the current sizes, but that some adjustments are necessary) and the "Hades Sizing" (indicating that the see no problem with how things are at all) with a -really- close follow up on "Retail Sizing"

   :: At the current moment, modifications are taking place in the FSU SVN to try and address many of the issues covered by the posts made. Once we are Internally satisfied with the results, those results will then become available for public testing to use with the Released 3.6.12 MediaVPs. Further adjustments will be done based on provided feedback until a majority consensus can call them as close to done as they will get, at which point those settings will become the Beams in our next Release.

   :: In order for Internal satisfaction to take place, some results will be showcased -prior- to release by screenshots in order to gather feedback to ensure that the right understanding and direction is being taken, and as such they are just as valid a point of comparative discussion as the "Retail vs 3.6.12" screenshots.

...===...
Personal Opinion Statement: (not to be read as "Official Declaration" or as a directive or direction for FSU at large) I abhorred the sizes as the existed in 3.6.10. Yes, they were big scary beams of DooM, but having the front end of an Aeolus cruiser completely get engulfed by it's beam-glow was just utterly asinine. I kept expecting the front of the ship to melt off into slag. I also don't get having a beam-glow /warm-up effect look like it's about to blast out a beam that's 2 to 3 times larger than what it does, but if we scaled the beams so that the flow and the core were a respective size to the beam-glow (and did it in a way that did not break things like they did in 3.6.10), then we're right back at 3.6.10 sizes. And it's not like we can simply adjust or change what ship is carrying what kind of beam, or start making alternative beams for different ships to use, as that cuts in on the limits the engine currently has and we've already cut into that a bit just adding shivanized secondaries.
...===...
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Offline Retsof

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 :nervous: Erm... the Hades sizing was the smaller ones, right?
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Offline bigchunk1

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Yes, Hades sizing is the Mediavps3612 update with the smaller beam and warmup bulb sizes. Everyone who voted should know that!
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 

Offline castor

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Mixed.. While I agree "Hades beam glows" look better than the retail ones visually, they are lacking on the "psychological effect" side of things. I mean, when a capship beam nearby your fighter is powering up, you should get the "Better get the hell out of here! NOW!" feeling. I'd be surprised if that was not the effect :v: was after when they sized them.

 

Offline TacOne

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I like Hades' beams/-glows.
The massive glows are just corny. I always imagined the beams more scalpel-like.

  

Offline jr2

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Mixed.. While I agree "Hades beam glows" look better than the retail ones visually, they are lacking on the "psychological effect" side of things. I mean, when a capship beam nearby your fighter is powering up, you should get the "Better get the hell out of here! NOW!" feeling. I'd be surprised if that was not the effect :v: was after when they sized them.

Yes.

The massive glows are just corny. I always imagined the beams more scalpel-like.

Maybe that might be the slasher beams; I never thought that about the other ones.  (Besides maybe AAA.)

 

Offline Valathil

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I wont get into a deep physical discussion here cause, you know BEAMS FROM SPACESHIPS, but it should be obvious that More powerful Beam = More Energy = wider Beam cause the amount of energy per volume should somewhat stay constant ( something about containment energy requirement increasing exponentially blablabla you get my drift )
┏┓╋┏┓╋╋╋╋╋╋╋╋╋┏┓
┃┃╋┃┃╋╋╋╋╋╋╋╋╋┃┃
┃┃┏┫┃┏┳━━┓┏━━┓┃┗━┳━━┳━━┳━━┓
┃┃┣┫┗┛┫┃━┫┃┏┓┃┃┏┓┃┏┓┃━━┫━━┫
┃┗┫┃┏┓┫┃━┫┃┏┓┃┃┗┛┃┗┛┣━━┣━━┃
┗━┻┻┛┗┻━━┛┗┛┗┛┗━━┻━━┻━━┻━━┛

 

Offline Zacam

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And with the amount of energy per-volume already established, the correlation (to my mind) means that the warm-up effect should be at an appropriately discrete scale to the beam that is being generated.

The more powerful beams are larger than the weaker beams. But the big issues is that the "visual sense" of power (to some people) isn't present unless we have Michael Bay style warm-ups for our beams which, with the beams staying near their Retail sizes, means that they are grossly over-sized. (In my opinion)


*sighs* To clarify here, this is an entirely tongue-in-cheek post. And as evidenced by the ending of (in my opinion), it should NOT be construed as an "official" verdict or declaration, please.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 06:06:57 pm by Zacam »
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[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline bigchunk1

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As difficult as it is to reason with the "I just think they look better" argument, it makes more sense to me than trying to come up with some kind of scientific explaination for why beam weapons work the way they do. This game is set 100s of years in future, where science is ubdoubtably advanced well beyond our understanding of what is possible and what is not. Furthermore, arguing against the design of a weapon in the game based on pseudoscience to me sounds like people are saying 'canon is wrong'. It is within the ability of FSU to abandon freespace canon in favor of a game which people want to play more, but I must ask: What is the purpose of FSU? Is it an improvement on freespace2, or the manufacturing of a different game entirely? This decision I believe, especially after continually hearing the pseudoscience arguments, is leaning toward the ladder latter.

Edit: Ladders are for climbing houses
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 08:02:33 pm by bigchunk1 »
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.