Author Topic: Peace  (Read 12079 times)

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Offline Nuke

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hippies piss me off. blow it all up! thats the answer.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Unknown Target

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It's a different kind of stress, I guess. Before the stress was whether or not you could get enough to eat, or the labor was hard/tiring. Now I think more people are stressed because they worry about whether their job is going to be obsolete in five years (older folks), or whether or not society will still be functioning by the time they start thinking about staring a family (younger folks). It's just the general stresses of life.

I'm glad that people are leaving poverty, but that introduces other issues that aren't being discussed as widely and as seriously as they should be; such as - to what standard of living are they hoping to attain? What standard of living are current "first world" nations expecting to stay at?

I hear a lot of arguments that say people in countries like the US or Europe would be unwilling to give up what they have and lead a less...saturated life. I don't really agree with that. I know that many people of the younger generations didn't really grow up knowing the same excesses of their parents; I don't think any of them really expect that. I know many young people don't expect to be in a unionized job when they finish schooling, as a major difference between the generations.

There should be more of a dialogue about what people in the West are willing to give up to avoid the wars and destruction that I think would come from them abjectly holding onto many of the things they honestly don't need anymore. In talking about the US; do we really need these massive houses (for those who have not been foreclosed upon)? Two cars per family? Five supermarkets within ten minutes walking distance from each other, all stocked with enough food each to feed an entire village in Africa for three weeks?

There seems to be this notion, at least in Washington and other capitals, that there would be rioting in the streets or terrible consequences if people in the West have to start cutting back. I think in reality it's more like people would complain, but get used to it, and indeed, maybe even enjoy a life less consumed by mindless consumption of junk and spending of currency. It's not like video games will stop being made, or no new episodes of your favorite TV shows will be created. We will still have many of the comforts of modern life; just maybe not as on-demand as we would like. People would have to plan more and maybe stock up food during the growing seasons. It's not that big of a deal; we've done it for thousands of years. The idea that you can get fresh apples in January is a relatively new one. Local cuisines and life will come back, as people adapt to the changing situation.

To bring this around to the topic of peace; without compromise, on both sides, it won't really happen. The US and other first world countries still have the power to enforce their will upon others, but the longer they keep it up, the more drastic the fall will be. The longer we put off making changes, the worse it will be for us when we eventually have to make them. I hope that we do not go to war, indeed, I don't even think another major world war will happen, to be honest; the world just does not have the resources nor I think the will for it anymore. What I am hoping to avoid is further bloodshed on both sides, that comes from the many small conflicts that leaders of nations so inevitably involve their lands in to protect what they think is "right" for them.

So I guess the big question is, what do we do with this new world that we have inherited? I would also like to bring back the idea of bringing these discussions into the real world; rather than keeping these very real, very well-thought-out posts by all of us involved as just some sort of placebo or echo chamber, why are we not acting on these things? Spreading these discussions to our friends, family, and anyone who will listen?
I chuckle with amusement at those meme images "the internet is here", but really...I chuckle only at the content, not so much the message. Like I said; individual communities given physical shape, or perhaps taking the internet as a whole and coordinating between different websites. Many of the old ways of doing things aren't working at best, or are causing more problems at worst. I have always thought that if the world needs something different, then it would have to change the way it changes things.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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You seemed convinced the future is poorer than the present.

Despite all the data seeming to point otherwise.

I'd question your premises.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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What data are you referring to? All the data I've seen points to less arable lend, less fuel, less room, more people.

I don't see any logical argument for the "perpetual growth" so often touted at the beginning of the last century.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Because by every measurable standard, things are improving. More people have access to food, medical care, housing. More people can watch television, use a phone, have a computer, have internet access. By both basic needs and luxuries, the numbers are going up and there is no plausible, unequivocal reason to say they will be arrested.

It's okay. Just relax and do your bit as a cog in the machine of civilization. Things will get better.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline zookeeper

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So I guess the big question is, what do we do with this new world that we have inherited? I would also like to bring back the idea of bringing these discussions into the real world; rather than keeping these very real, very well-thought-out posts by all of us involved as just some sort of placebo or echo chamber, why are we not acting on these things? Spreading these discussions to our friends, family, and anyone who will listen?

Experience tells me that very few will. And they're usually smart enough anyway that they don't need to hear it from others.

I wouldn't go to war, and that's about as much as I can really do.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Because by every measurable standard, things are improving. More people have access to food, medical care, housing. More people can watch television, use a phone, have a computer, have internet access. By both basic needs and luxuries, the numbers are going up and there is no plausible, unequivocal reason to say they will be arrested.

It's okay. Just relax and do your bit as a cog in the machine of civilization. Things will get better.

Some things are improving; and others are getting worse. There's talk that humans are reaching their carrying capacity on this planet. You mentioned food; I'm sure you've noticed the increasing price of it, both in developed and undeveloped countries. Why is that?

And I am relaxed, though I thank you for your concern and good will. :)

 

Offline Luis Dias

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There's talk

There's too much talk. I'll give you that one.


(EDIT: To clarify, I'm not referring to your talk or this thread, etc. I'm referring to the continuous paranoia that we are always suffering about the horrendogeddons that we are almost getting into... and this is something that is even older than Malthus...)

 

Offline Unknown Target

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There's talk

There's too much talk. I'll give you that one.


(EDIT: To clarify, I'm not referring to your talk or this thread, etc. I'm referring to the continuous paranoia that we are always suffering about the horrendogeddons that we are almost getting into... and this is something that is even older than Malthus...)

Those are things we can both agree on. :)

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Some things are improving; and others are getting worse.

Show me. I want some measurable index that things are not improving from a respectable source. I'll bet and lay odds you can't find one.

There's talk that humans are reaching their carrying capacity on this planet.

Sure there's talk. There's been talk about that since the Roman Empire, and probably earlier. That's all it is; talk. Empirical evidence says that it's not true. We can do more with less than ever before, and we're only improving in that aspect.

You mentioned food; I'm sure you've noticed the increasing price of it, both in developed and undeveloped countries. Why is that?

Why did a Happy Meal cost $1.50 when it first came out? Welcome to basic economics. People are generally more prosperous, therefore you can pay more, therefore you will be charged more.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Off the top of my head, what about overfishing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/02/AR2006110200913.html

From the article;

Quote
An international group of ecologists and economists warned yesterday that the world will run out of seafood by 2048 if steep declines in marine species continue at current rates, based on a four-year study of catch data and the effects of fisheries collapses.

if you want more than this, please ask. You'll have to wait until I can talk to some of my friends who keep better track of the numbers than me, though I'm sure they'd be happy to provide some more examples for you. What do you think of what I've posted so far, though? :)


As for food prices...so you're saying the food riots in Egypt prior to it's recent rebellion are because they're more prosperous? Thus, they can afford more, and therefore food just jumped too high for no reason other than people charging more because they can? Please correct me if I have misinterpreted your logic. :)


The doing more with less, what are you referring to? If you're referring to farming more with less people and less land, well then yes, I think the last I heard it was one person today is feeding 100 people. The thing is though, that is mostly due to automation; which requires fuel. Which is getting harder to find and thus is getting more scarce. Which is driving up the price. Which then requires that farmers increase their prices to be able to cover their expenses. Which is causing food prices to rise.

EDIT: More on topic, does anyone have any more thoughts about internet websites taking these sorts of discussions from the etheral into the physcal? Why are these sorts of things not things that are said say, during election season?
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 05:35:03 pm by Unknown Target »

 
You know what rises food prices?  Ethanol.  There's plenty of farmland that could be devoted to actual food crops if ethanol subsides were eliminated and it wasn't required to be put in gasoline anymore.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Totally agree. Unfortunately that fact isn't really getting the exposure it needs, and it seems like the people in charge aren't getting the right information or are refusing to listen to the information they're getting; there's a lot of people who are saying that we should devote more farmland to ethanol production as an alternative to gasoline...something that is definitely not the best decision. It seems like people are trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, at least to me; we're trying to figure out what we can do to replace the car, when really nothing works quite the same or quite as well. It would be more prudent to try and find a way off this car (in it's current iteration)-dependent system, IMO, though people have disagreed with me in the past about this, offering many good and fair points.

But yes, turning arable land into car fuel is not the best approach.

 

Offline redsniper

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... John Lennon songs ... live and let live.

You used to say "live and let live." You know you did. You know you did. You know you did. But if this ever-changing world in which we live in makes you give in and cry, say "Live and let Die."
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 
I thought it was Paul McCartney, not John Lennon, that did Live and Let Die.
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline redsniper

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  • Aim for the Top!
It was, but both Paul McCartney and John Lennon were in this band together that you may have heard of. :p
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 
The Beatles?  Never heard of those guys. :p
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 
 

Offline Snail

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Give peace a chance!
i hope that's all you're saying.