[Grizzly]

http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrc.nl%2Fnieuws%2F2011%2F08%2F02%2Fisraelisch-hooggerechtshof-beveelt-afbraak-illegale-buitenpost-in-ongekende-uitspraak%2F%3Futm_campaign%3Drss%26utm_source%3Dsyndication.

Sounds good enough. But there are some things in the article that do make a good point that this is not the time for celebration. On the other hand, it is good to see some good example of trias politica.

[Snail]

illegal outpost is illegal

[Turambar]

illegal state is illegal

[MP-Ryan]

illegal state is illegal

I sincerely hope you're not making a serious comment about the state of Israel itself, because it happens that I have a few historical sources I'm prepared to hurl in the direction of your head if that is indeed the case.

* MP-Ryan warily eyes Turambar

[LordPomposity]

illegal state is illegal

I sincerely hope you're not making a serious comment about the state of Israel itself, because it happens that I have a few historical sources I'm prepared to hurl in the direction of your head if that is indeed the case.

* MP-Ryan warily eyes Turambar

* LordPomposity gets popcorn

[Snail]

A preemptive lock would be prudent.

[Turambar]

Hurl away dude, nothing can make what Israel has done right.

[Snail]

This is not going to be a good thread.

[SpardaSon21]

It will be when MP-Ryan hits Turambar in the head with sources.

[MP-Ryan]

Hurl away dude, nothing can make what Israel has done right.

Let's make sure you terms are defined here.  If you're talking about Israeli actions concerning occupation of some of the territories surrounding the conventional pre-1967 borders of the state of Israel, then I'll forgive you because that is definitely a subject up for debate (particularly the issue of West Bank settlements).

If you're talking about the existence of the state of Israel itself post-1948, and its military defense against its neighbors who intended to destroy it (Six Day War), and its ongoing defense (note defense, not occupation) against attacks in contravention of international law (rocket attacks from Lebanon and Gaza Strip, 1990s-present) then you're in need of an education.

[Shade]

Indeed. Whatever one may think about what is currently happening in that part of the world, calling the state of Israel itself 'illegal' is bollocks. Some of the actions of the state may be, but so are certain actions of many other states (like, for example, the United States. Or hell, my own country), but you can't decry an entire country as 'illegal' over something like that. Every country on Earth (possibly excepting Iceland) would be illegal under those terms.

[Al-Rik]

Hurray !
If now the supreme court of the Hamas rules in a Fatwa that it's illegal to shoot rockets at civilians or to kidnapp soldiers without giving the red cross a chance to see him during 5 years, peace will come...

That, and that all the Supreme Courts of Kuwait, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon rules that it is illegal to refuse citizens rights to their arab brothers from Palestine. Yeah, those guys who live since 1948 ( or have born there ) in Kuwait, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon and are still second class citizens...

[The E]

Well, this seems to be going nowhere fast.

[MP-Ryan]

Well, this seems to be going nowhere fast.

I'm still waiting for Turambar to enlighten us all to his cryptic meaning.

[karajorma]

Yeah, those guys who live since 1948 ( or have born there ) in Kuwait, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon and are still second class citizens...

They'd be second class citizens in Israel and Palestine too so why are you picking on those countries?

[Luis Dias]

Well, this seems to be going nowhere fast.

I'm still waiting for Turambar to enlighten us all to his cryptic meaning.

I think (and hope) you'll be disappointed. I don't think he is that commited in being driven into such a hellish conversation that has the potential of sanitization bannings...

[Al-Rik]

Yeah, those guys who live since 1948 ( or have born there ) in Kuwait, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon and are still second class citizens...

They'd be second class citizens in Israel and Palestine too so why are you picking on those countries?

The Arabs of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the Lebanon are the Arab brothers of the Palestinians. But they don't thread them like brothers, or do they ?
If you blame Israel by the way they threat their enemies, you can't ignore the way the Arabs threat their brothers.


Kuwait expelled most Palestinians after the Gulf War of 2001.
In Saudi Arabia no Palestinian can become a citizen or vote.
The same in Lebanon - no citizen rights, no right to vote and a ban to work in certain trades.

Over 400,000 Palestinian refugees live in Lebanon, who are deprived of certain basic rights. Lebanon barred Palestinian refugees from 73 job categories including professions such as medicine, law and engineering. They are not allowed to own property, and even need a special permit to leave their refugee camps. Unlike other foreigners in Lebanon, they are denied access to the Lebanese health care system. The Lebanese government refused to grant them work permits or permission to own land.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee#Lebanon

Hell, even the Israelis thread their Palestinians better (at least they can vote for the knesset ).

[karajorma]

You have heard of the concept of two wrongs don't make a right, yes?

Seems to me you're trying to argue that Israel is justified in poor treatment of Palestinians because other countries treat them poorly too.

[Scotty]

It seems to me that he's approaching it from the "Quit singling Israel out for something everyone else already does but worse."

Little bit difference.

[karajorma]

And when someone does something about the other nations we'll celebrate that just as much.