[Sandwich]

...starting Sunday, but they let me out (after I requested) due to financial issues on my end.

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=234482

[JCDNWarrior]

Interesting how these events coincide with the move for the establishment of a Palestine state. It's a mess over there and a hornet's nest to talk about. Hope you won't need to serve, best to stay out of all wars.

“The source of these terror acts is in Gaza and we will act against them with full force.”

The war drums beat already..

[Sandwich]

“The source of these terror acts is in Gaza and we will act against them with full force.”

The war drums beat already..

I guess you could say it sounds that way, as long as you ignore the war drums that have been beating against Israel in the form of thousands of rockets fired at our cities over the past 10 years or suicide bombings directed at civilians...

Sorry, I just have that kind of reaction whenever I see a double-standard being applied in the situation.

[JCDNWarrior]

Ah, I'm sorry if I sound like I'm applying double standards. Looking from an outsider's perspective makes his response sound very aggressive. I just wonder why people have been launching all those rockets and suicide bombing, doesn't seem too exciting to do. 

[Mika]

I guess you could say it sounds that way, as long as you ignore the war drums that have been beating against Israel in the form of thousands of rockets fired at our cities over the past 10 years or suicide bombings directed at civilians...

Sorry, I just have that kind of reaction whenever I see a double-standard being applied in the situation.
 

That stuff still hasn't stopped? I haven't heard any mention of rockets being fired from the media here at least for a year.

[Bobboau]

I haven't heard any mention of rockets being fired from the media here at least for a year.

funny that, I guess when something goes on long enough the media lose interest.

I just wonder why people have been launching all those rockets and suicide bombing, doesn't seem too exciting to do. 

why is the state of Texas perpetually on the cusp of assigning the bible as a science text book? and have you ever launched a rocked at a massively fortified and highly protective nation? I doubt boring is the word one would choose to describe the reaction.

[MP-Ryan]

I'm compiling a list of all the HLPers that are going to receive free 20th-century history textbooks courtesy of me if I ever win the lottery.  Threads like this are frequently goldmines.

Stay safe, Sandwich.

[Grizzly]

“The source of these terror acts is in Gaza and we will act against them with full force.”

The war drums beat already..

I guess you could say it sounds that way, as long as you ignore the war drums that have been beating against Israel in the form of thousands of rockets fired at our cities over the past 10 years or suicide bombings directed at civilians...

Sorry, I just have that kind of reaction whenever I see a double-standard being applied in the situation.

The attacks on the palestinians tend to stick more in my head since those apperently kill more often. And then this happens, so now its back again.

I am still utterly convinced that all sides of that conflict are bat**** insane. Nothing personal.

[Kosh]

I can't wait until World War 3.......

[Nemesis6]

From my point of view it's a case of Israel's neighbors wanting it destroyed, and so they finance and enable terrorism against it, even if, officially, they distance themselves from it. Case in point: Arafat condemning terrorism while secretly funding the families of suicide bombers, AKA: Martyrs. I think the reason that the Palestinians have stopped almost all terrorist attacks and it's sporadic ones like this that make news now, well, I think it's a testament to Israel's response -- Israel's neighbors know that if they attack Israel, it hits back ten times as hard. The security wall and the naval blockade seem to contribute their fair share to Israel's security as well, so it might just be those two things that have stabilized it.

[Grizzly]

On the other hand, there's still some huminitarian crisis. Solve one problem and you cause another. Grrr. Its impossible.

[Mongoose]

Jeez...keep your head down Sandvich.

[JCDNWarrior]

I'm compiling a list of all the HLPers that are going to receive free 20th-century history textbooks courtesy of me if I ever win the lottery.  Threads like this are frequently goldmines.

What would be about this subject in the history book?

All I learned is that Jeruzalem (Like Babylon) and it's environment has always been a war zone, 17 empires conquered it before. It's a mess to even start to discuss who is the rightful owner of the place, nor how to create peace, there wont be any cause -both- sides are compelled to wage war against another, fueled by..whatever it is that keeps people fighting for the place. It's futile unless you actually try to help both sides to get what they need.

It evaporates the opinion of Gaza, of the colonization of the area, the whole mess that's going on there present day. its always been that way, and everyone claims it's their holy, promised, hereditary, family land.

Whatever causes people to keep warring over the area seems to have some very negative influence on people. 

[Aardwolf]

Jerusalem wasn't conquered by 17 empires in the 20th century, though.

[JCDNWarrior]

Jerusalem wasn't conquered by 17 empires in the 20th century, though.

Well that's obvious, but that doesn't say much to the Arabian and other peoples that have inhabited the surrounding areas for thousands of years, all of which ancestors (or themselves) at one time have conquered the area, causing them all to feel they have a claim to it.  That's why it's so hard to tell one group of people it's their land and the other to get out, to put people in one part of the country and another to allow further colonization, and so on.

Though I do have to admit i'm a little peeved so much money gets sent to Israel since it's founding, it's huge costs for the USA, and being put in -any- side of the struggle only continues to fuel it.

[Unknown Target]

Glad you're ok, Sandwich.


Too bad about the Gaza blockade. Hearing a lot of reports that it's inducing pretty bad conditions on the people living there; that might be a cause of a lot of the anger.

[Sandwich]

That stuff still hasn't stopped? I haven't heard any mention of rockets being fired from the media here at least for a year.

Figures... not that I expect every single rocket to be reported world-wide, but an occasional "Rocket fire against southern Israeli towns continued unabated this month" article would be nice to see...

In any case, QassamCount is the only place I could find that appears to report on every rocket fired... the recent activity was a rocket heading for Ashkelon that was intercepted by the Iron Dome 7 hours ago, 2 mortar shells 9 hours ago, 2 rockets 11 hours ago that weren't intercepted, another 2 Grad rockets 13 hours ago... the list goes on. When the barrage continues in such an intense, continual and unending fashion, no wonder the world media stops reporting on it. I can't really blame them... I just hope it helps some of you understand the situation here a bit better.

Though I do have to admit i'm a little peeved so much money gets sent to Israel since it's founding, it's huge costs for the USA, and being put in -any- side of the struggle only continues to fuel it.

In all fairness, I think the massive uprisings in nearly all the Arab nations in the Middle East kind of makes the US's investment into supporting Israel sound much more sensible, don't you? I'm not talking specifics, amounts, details - just stating that the general notion of supporting the one real democratic nation in the cauldron of decidedly undemocratic nations seems like a good idea when said undemocratic nations go to pot.

Too bad about the Gaza blockade. Hearing a lot of reports that it's inducing pretty bad conditions on the people living there; that might be a cause of a lot of the anger.

The blockade only prevents weapons from getting through, not humanitarian aid. Don't make connections between the weapons blockade and the crap living conditions in Gaza when there isn't one.

That said, the living conditions in Gaza do suck. I recall reading a statistic a long time ago (like, in the 90's sometime) about how Gaza was one of the most densely populated places on the planet. With much of the international support being appropriated by the Hamas to fund their terrorism operations, it's no surprise Gazans live in squalid conditions.

One thing I'd like to point out, however, is that every Arab village I've ever been in has been far below what a typical 3rd-world person would consider "average" living conditions (and please, I'm not trying to be "maliciously" racist, but to state facts as I've observed them). This includes not only the villages, towns, and cities under Palestinian Authority civic control in the West Bank that I've been through on patrol, but also the Israeli Arab neighborhoods just down the street from my house, here in Jerusalem - which are under the same civic rules, rights, and management as the other neighborhoods in Jerusalem. For whatever reasons, the Middle-East Arab culture or mindset appears to not place much value on cleanliness, rural upkeep, etc. There's litter all over the place (cans, bottles, and other garbage), half-built (or half-ruined) buildings seemingly in every 5th lot, pothole-strewn streets that might have been decently paved once...

Anyway, all this to say that although the conditions in Gaza may be frightfully appalling when compared to a 3rd-world country, when you compare Gaza to the average Arab village or neighborhood, there's a lot less contrast.

[Bobboau]

Too bad about the Gaza blockade. Hearing a lot of reports that it's inducing pretty bad conditions on the people living there; that might be a cause of a lot of the anger.

I think he knows that, and I think you know that the blockade didn't happen in a vacuum either.

the one real democratic nation in the cauldron of decidedly undemocratic nations

The way Libya has been headed the last week, you might not be able to hold that distinction much longer.

[NGTM-1R]

And as long as Israel self-identifies as Jewish and for Jews, then you're not really a good posterboy for democracy either.

Maybe more democratic, but I wouldn't call that true democracy by any stretch.

[karajorma]

Exactly the point I was about to make NGTM-1R. Arabs simply do not have the same rights as Jews in Israel so it's pretty hard to make the claim that it's a model of democracy for the rest of the Arab nations.