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Question about ship availability
Why is that when I open "fred2_open_3_6_12d_INF", the editor only gives me access to Freespace 1 ships and such? How do I use/install ships that were created by third parties?

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Question about ship availability
What you should do depends on what version of FRED you want to use.

FRED 3.6.12 requires you to set up a shortcut  and use the -mod option in order to pick the mod you want to use. You can find details on how to do that here.

FRED 3.6.13 onwards just use whatever mod you set in the launcher. Be warned that using 3.6.13 basically means using bleeding edge builds. A lot of bugs have been fixed but you may find that there are new ones. You can download 3.6.13 from the nightly builds SCP board here on HLP.

If you just want to use the Blue Planet ships, then you're done. If you want to use different ships from different mods, then you need to set up your own mod folder and move all the ships you want into that.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline FlamingCobra

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Re: Question about ship availability
So you create a VP file with the ships you want in your own mod folder or do you just toss them in there?

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Question about ship availability
just toss them in there.
don't make vps.

vps suck.

there is absolutely no reason to ever make a VP file, ever.
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Offline FlamingCobra

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Re: Question about ship availability
Do I put them in the root? because when i put them in a models folder in my Mod folder they don't show up in FRED.

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Question about ship availability
just toss them in there.
don't make vps.

vps suck.

there is absolutely no reason to ever make a VP file, ever.

Vps are a pita to work with in the development stage, once everything works and you want to distribute the mod then VPs are useful

Do I put them in the root? because when i put them in a models folder in my Mod folder they don't show up in FRED.

in the freespace 2 folder create a directory named in some way after the mod and then inside that create a folder called data.

http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Ships_and_General_Mod_Creation
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Offline Droid803

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Re: Question about ship availability
no they're not, even when you're releasing they just serve to make patching harder >.>
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Offline FlamingCobra

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Re: Question about ship availability
Thank you!

 

Offline bigchunk1

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Re: Question about ship availability
The reason why I was considering releasing using .vps is because I think it makes it easier for users who don't understand fs file management very well. Imagine compartmental release with all the folders. I can imagine what the questions would look like: So this folder goes where? Woops, I thought we were supposed to split that up. Aah dang, I unpacked that in my main fs folder and now everything's corrupt.

VP files force everything to be packed in one file (or several files) to make file management easier on the user end. I do admit, for people who are into moding/tinkering with other people's mods it's an unnecessary hassle, and you're right about patching but I've seen it done before. What was this topic again?

Jericho, highly recommend not making your mod files into a .vp until you release it. It makes moving files around very difficult. When you are ready to release mod materials then consider if you want to or not.

To get new ships in the game, just follow these steps (to use ships from already built modpacks do step 5 only):

1. Create a new mod folder and place this folder in freespace2/<mod folder name> You can name the folder whatever you want.

2. Create a ships.tbm or a ships.tbl with references for the new ships you want. Fred looks at table files to figure out which ships to make available. Place your table files in freespace2/<mod folder name>/data/tables
If you don't know how to make .tbl or .tbm files see the ships.tbl wiki or look at samples from other mods. Blueplanet has a good .tbm sample while retail fs2 has a good .tbl sample in the root VP.

3. your .tbl or .tbm file will reference a model for every ship. This model data MUST be in your mod folder or the game will crash. Place the model files which are in .pof format in freespace2/<mod folder name>/data/tables

3b. These model files will reference texture maps. These textures also must be in your mod data files or the game will crash. Place these files in freespace2/<mod folder name>/data/maps

4. For every ship you have in the game you must also include the weapons it uses or the game will crash. Weapons like the Subach HL7 are already in the main fs2 game unless you overwrite it. Make sure you have copy-pasted all the necessary weapon data your usermade ships use into a weapons.tbl file or a weapons.tbm file.
If you are curious how weapon.tbms or .tbls are made see sample table files or see the weapons.tbl wiki page.

5. This step is very important, go into your launcher program and select <your mod folder> as if you were going to play freespace. Hit 'apply' in the launcher. Freespace Open has now told FRED and the game to use data from this mod. Now, when you open FRED. You should see all the new ships you specified in the ships.tbl. Unless it crashes, in which case fix the bugs. Try this with other usermade mods you have downloaded to see how it works.

5b. (optional but recommended) Make a mod.ini to specify what data you want to add from other mods such as mediavps_3612. See other usermade sample mod.ini files for how to make one. They are all prettymuch the same format. place this mod.ini file in freespace2/<your mod folder>

It can be frustrating to get this all to run smoothly, especially for someone with no prior experience with moding. It sure was for me at the time. Be patient, once you are able to do this you will have broken into the art of FSO moding and will be able to do many fun and creative things.

Edit: lol woops, I just tried to rewrite that link above without knowing it. Glad you got things figured out.

BP Multi
The Antagonist
Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Question about ship availability
no they're not, even when you're releasing they just serve to make patching harder >.>
...how?  You make a patch .vp, you name it so that it's loaded first, and boom, you're done.  It's a hell of a lot easier than tossing out dozens of individual updated files.

 

Offline FlamingCobra

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Re: Question about ship availability
So I don't need a ships.tbl file if I use a .tbm bile, which just tacks on data to the end of FS2 Retail's .tbl file?

 

Offline headdie

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Re: Question about ship availability
So I don't need a ships.tbl file if I use a .tbm bile, which just tacks on data to the end of FS2 Retail's .tbl file?

correct
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Offline Droid803

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Re: Question about ship availability
no they're not, even when you're releasing they just serve to make patching harder >.>
...how?  You make a patch .vp, you name it so that it's loaded first, and boom, you're done.  It's a hell of a lot easier than tossing out dozens of individual updated files.

individual updated files = drag over old folder, replace all, done.
and then the old, bugged/outdated files aren't swimming around anymore.
less redundancy.

it's not my fault if people are computer/mod-structure illiterate.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Question about ship availability
It's your fault if you choose to make your release more complicated than it needs to be, though.  The whole reason we have .vp files in the first place is so we don't need hundreds of individual textures and tables flying around.  Besides, if you're making a big enough patch that you have to change a significant portion of a mod's files, you might as well just release a new set of .vps anyway.

 

Offline Droid803

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Re: Question about ship availability
How is "extract in your Freespace Root Directory" complicated at all?
I'd just archive my entire mod folder from the top. :/

easier than telling people to create a folder to dump VPs in even...

And releasing a whole new set of VPs is bandwidth inefficient.

Until compressed VPs become a reality, VPs are useless to me. In fact, they're a nuisance because they don't do anything but add an extra step when trying to grab something from a mod, or to fix a bug that slipped by and I found on my own...
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Re: Question about ship availability
Didn't know I would set off a debate... >.>

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Question about ship availability
Welcome to HLP, unfortunately. :p

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Question about ship availability
individual updated files = drag over old folder, replace all, done.
and then the old, bugged/outdated files aren't swimming around anymore.
less redundancy.

Unless of course you need to totally remove a file. Cause then your only option is to tell the user to uninstall the entire mod and reinstall the new version. As opposed to simply replacing 1 VP file.

Until compressed VPs become a reality, VPs are useless to me. In fact, they're a nuisance because they don't do anything but add an extra step when trying to grab something from a mod, or to fix a bug that slipped by and I found on my own...

I hope you feel the same way after the first time you have to deal with a user suffering issues due to a corrupt file. VPs are checksummed so you know when one is broken. Good luck trying to figure out that the problem is even file corruption in the first place without them.
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Offline Droid803

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Re: Question about ship availability
can't you just compared hashes of rar/7z archives to check for corruption?

if i want to tell someone to remove a file, i'll tell them to go into the directory and delete the right file.
oh look no replacing required, no reinstallation!

if you can't even delete a file...well...
you shouldn't be using the computer. rly.

whenever you make something "foolproof", reality makes a bigger fool, so I realize it doesn't ****ing matter. :P I'll just do what's most convenient for me. Besides, its a righteous cause - the prevention of the arising of greater foolishness!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 11:17:20 pm by Droid803 »
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Question about ship availability
So while the rest of the community has realised that making things hard for the user to do simply rebounds and makes it harder on you, you're determined to do things old school style.


You're seriously comparing getting the user to compare hash values with getting people like The E or Jeff Vader to do it with the .vp checksums from the log file?

As for deletion, suppose you don't need to just delete one file, suppose it's 5 or 10 or 37?

But I think I'm starting to see this is a lost cause. There is a reason why the community are in favour of VPs files over loose files, there's a reason we think only an idiot forks the code, there are reasons why we think that only a moron tells people to install mods to root. These conventions didn't build up because the community had nothing better to do than make it harder for modders. They exist because it is plainly obvious to the vast majority of us that it is a bad idea to do certain things.
 If you want to go your own way on this, no one is going to stop you. You'll learn for yourself soon enough why these conventions exist as soon as you try to support something that runs counter to them.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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