[redsniper]

Wait what? You can't resolve a misunderstanding that quickly around here. This is HLP! I demand you argue bitterly back and forth about it for five pages, with epic tl;dr posts in which you quote and dissect each post point by point, both using incredibly shady sources and taking every opportunity to berate the other poster and anyone who agrees with him.

[Mikes]

Sorry, I mistook you for a Ayn Rand style libertarian charging up.

One might imagine that "Ayn Rand" the person who made Alan Greenspan realize that Capitalism is not just efficient and practical, but also ethical ( ) may not be the most popular person right now.

Course they too had their falling out by now... but still.

[Mars]

My best friend is a firm believer in Randism, and we drive everyone bonkers with how much we argue about it. Unfortunately that's resulted in me seeing extreme libertarians where there aren't any.

[MP-Ryan]

My best friend is a firm believer in Randism, and we drive everyone bonkers with how much we argue about it. Unfortunately that's resulted in me seeing extreme libertarians where there aren't any.

Libertarianism, as with most things in life, is best only in moderation

[deathfun]

Don't apologize! It's a sign of weakness Mars! You're supposed to be the God of War! BE MORE GODLIKE FOOL

Back on topic:

It is working people who produce the wealth which wall street squanders, while their politicians in the white house tell us there's "no money" for social security, health care, education, and a decent standard of living. They spend trillions on criminal wars and barely give us crumbs of the spoils. Whatever party is in the white house, it is Wall Street which truly owns and runs this country. Nowadays, the multi billionaires on wall street are not rich because they created industrial empires, unlike Ford etc in the 1900s. They get rich by destroying those industrial empires, closing factories down, and outsourcing labor. I don't care what you believe, NO ONE should have that much money. You don't need it. There are people who are starving because 500 people have OBSCENE amounts of wealth just rotting away in a bank account. **** that. Whatever you believe, the majority of people will not let it stand. That's what this movement is all about. It is the beginning of the overthrow of capitalism. Get used to it.
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dude, actually, protesting on wall street amounts to pressuring the powers that be to make reforms. It won't actually do anything. The real revolution begins inside the factories throughout the country and the world.

No matter what, you will continue to doubt the revolutionary potential of the working class, because you are disconnected from it and demoralized based on your petty-bourgeois position. people could be openly calling for a socialist revolution and you would still be doubting it. the governments could be overthrown and you would still be doubting it. why even live if you are not even going to take part in these historical times?

WSWS guy I mentioned earlier. That's his take on this

[Pred the Penguin]

Thinking about taking a short trip to New York to see this occupation for myself... would make an interesting first trip to NYC for me.
Note: I skipped every page 'cept the first.

[Aardwolf]

Since IMO Battuta's initial response wasn't thorough enough...

Higher wages means less profits

Profit = Income - Expenses

Wages, salaries, stipends, and any other way of paying money to your employees, are all in that "expenses" category.

[jr2]

Since IMO Battuta's initial response wasn't thorough enough...

Higher wages means less profits

Profit = Income - Expenses

Wages, salaries, stipends, and any other way of paying money to your employees, are all in that "expenses" category.

Yes... and don't forget taxes...although whether a company would re-invest additional profit from lower taxes into employee wages is questionable..

[Turambar]

Since IMO Battuta's initial response wasn't thorough enough...

Higher wages means less profits

Profit = Income - Expenses

Wages, salaries, stipends, and any other way of paying money to your employees, are all in that "expenses" category.

Yes... and don't forget taxes...although whether a company would re-invest additional profit from lower taxes into employee wages is questionable..

Except we tried that, and they didn't.  Nothing has trickled down.

[karajorma]

Oh something trickled down. It just wasn't money.

[Klaustrophobia]

for informational purposes only, not trying to make a statement on the protests one way or another.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/10/18/poll-49-of-occupy-wall-street

[General Battuta]

The bailouts absolutely were pretty necessary, but what the banks have done since then has actually been a little questionable -- rather than increasing investment (as they were supposed to), they've bunkered down and raked in a lot of cash. Here's a decently non-****ty overview of the facts behind a lot of the common refrains you'll hear from the street.

[Unknown Target]

Nice link, thanks GB.

EDIT: So has anyone been involved with any of these? I went to the one in my local area (as a curious citizen, not a participant). The people there seemed generally nice and well meaning. I got to talk to several different individuals, including the police officer standing guard; I remember this conversation the most distinctly. He agreed with a lot of the notions the protesters were putting forth, and we also talked a lot about the responsibility of an officer in America.
People in the protest itself seemed to be happy to be out and doing something more political than simply voting. There was a large variety of signs, talking about everything from corporate greed to environmental issues. I would say 99% of the people there gave me a good vibe; there was one individual shouting, though I believe he left halfway through and he appeared to be intoxicated. Another individual, an elderly man in a wheelchair, did indeed start by proclaiming peace, but it ended with me finding him out through his own words that he advocated violence.
I did find another individual who had a sign saying how oil subsidies should be stopped; I talked to her about how Europe lacks oil subsidies and the resultant high prices of their gas. She was very open and receptive to being given information that conflicted with her chosen statement, something that I was happy with.

As I was leaving, I talked with on more person who agreed with my notion that the 99% vs 1% idea might be too conflicting; I proposed that it automatically sets up a system that relies on conflict between two groups, rather than a singular movement towards a shared common goal.

I've heard the general assembly meetings are still pretty disorganized. I'm hoping to get there this Sunday and see if I can help out. There was a small protest on my campus the other day, held by the students that were a part of the ISO. We discussed some things, but like many of the occupations they lack clarity of focus. Hopefully they will be able to find it; I have a friend in that group who might be able to help.

How about you folks? Made it down to your local Occupation?

[Turambar]

I would totally go, but I have work :-( 

There's an Occupy Raleigh and everything, I just can't make it out during the day, even on the weekend.  Damn you Crunch!

[Pred the Penguin]

As I said, I might take a trip over just see what the heck is happening for myself. I'll get back to guys if I do.

[Mongoose]

Can't say I really have any interest in going myself.  It's interesting to watch, though.

[General Battuta]

Have been, have had friends maced

[IronBeer]

Tangentially related, but seems like as good a time as any to throw this in:
http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=message_to_cops

[General Battuta]

The cops are actually mostly respectful and doing their jobs with great professionalism and courtesy, it's just the exceptions that make the news.

[Klaustrophobia]

Tangentially related, but seems like as good a time as any to throw this in:
http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=message_to_cops

whoever wrote that is a moron with a grudge.