Author Topic: Iraq pull out announced  (Read 22200 times)

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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
Only cause they usually go through American politics first. If you lot could figure out how to have the secular government your founding fathers actually wanted, the rest of us wouldn't have to deal with this nonsense. :p

Believe me, a lot of the non-idiots among us Yanks would prefer this, too. And we also with someone would step up and correct the historical revisionism about this being a "Christian" nation. I correct everyone I can, but I'm not exactly influential.

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
The correct response is the same as it should be to terrorism. Eternal vigilance for it but a measured response to it. NGTM-1R's comment is too far in the opposite direction. "No Doomsday cult has ever done much damage so none ever will." That's an incredibly bad way to look at the danger they pose. Especially considering how close certain Doomsday cults have got to death tolls in the same region as 9/11.


...and the Karatutta Postulation is born.

Maybe we should make this into our very own Godwin.

As in, "this thread just got karatutta'd?" Works for me. :)

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
it only takes one doomsday cult stealth candidate to get into office with the goal of starting a nuclear war.

Checks and balances.  Government 101?

EDIT: And kara, other denominations / factions may not believe the same interpretation that I do, but you would have to twist the Bible pretty far (as in, delete large portions and cut - copy - paste the rest to tailor-fit what you are trying to get it to say) in order to justify what was being proposed that "those wacko Bible-thumpers" are all supposedly out to do.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 08:56:58 pm by jr2 »

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Iraq pull out announced

Checks and balances.  Government 101?


Has a spotty record of stopping unilateral war.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
EDIT: And kara, other denominations / factions may not believe the same interpretation that I do, but you would have to twist the Bible pretty far (as in, delete large portions and cut - copy - paste the rest to tailor-fit what you are trying to get it to say) in order to justify what was being proposed that "those wacko Bible-thumpers" are all supposedly out to do.

As I keep pointing out, none of the stuff you had mentioned had actually happened but people were listening to some guy claiming The Rapture was going to happen. How do you explain that?
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Offline jr2

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
The Rapture is something that no one knows when it will occur.  Literally, "no man knows the day or the hour, only the Father in Heaven knows" (that will probably be a bit off, I did that from memory, feel free to Google the exact translation).  Therefore, if someone claims they know when the Rapture will occur, they have decided to disregard that passage.  And if they are disregarding that, why should I pay any attention to the rest of their claims?  If your source of truth is supposed to be reliable, you can't pick and choose.  Either the source or the messenger is wrong.  Or both.  In this case at least the messenger is wrong, as he claims to have knowledge on something that his source of truth clearly states he cannot have.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
At which point you disprove your entire argument that the content of the bible precludes doomsday cults based on Christianity. There will always be people saying that they are Christians who are ignoring one part or another of the bible. You are simply making a No true Scotsman argument that they aren't true Christians.

Oh and while we're at it, AFAIK the rapture isn't even mentioned in the Bible at all. What you're referring to is the date of Judgement Day.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 12:55:10 am by karajorma »
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Re: Iraq pull out announced
Is heaven mentoined in the bible as the place where we will all go when we die (now that we are on the subject)? I never seem to recall that it actually did...

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
Actually the bible expressly states that only around 100,000 people are getting in.
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
ever? I thought that was 100000 getting raptured?
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
You could make much the same argument about terrorism pre 9/11.

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but you are a Brit right? The Troubles? Lockerbie and the Pan Am bombing?

There would be no reason to make such an argument pre-9/11, and many reasons not to. In fact this whole setup is highly terrible and stupid because you're comparing the ability to crash an airplane to the ability to orchestrate the end of the friggin' world.

This is many orders of magnitude more difficult, to the point your comparison is meaningless. The problems of scale and obstacles are dramatically, incredibly different.

Actually the bible expressly states that only around 100,000 people are getting in.

Perhaps if you have a Schofield Reference Bible, but Rapture theology isn't all that Biblical when you get right down to it.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
Ignoring the fact that a man who believed he talked to God was president of America for 8 years doesn't exactly do much to to make me believe you. Especially given that Reagan's Evil Empire speech actually did come quite close to causing a nuclear war. Put those two together and you should be able to see that a single crazy in the right place could cause the massive devastation you seem to consider unlikely.

Perhaps if you have a Schofield Reference Bible, but Rapture theology isn't all that Biblical when you get right down to it.

I'm referring to the number who get into heaven. Ever. Including those already dead. Not the number raptured in.

Quote
Revelations 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Of course other people have different interpretations of what that number means, but that's the subject of the other thread. :p
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 09:02:24 am by karajorma »
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
That passage clearly says "tribes of the children of Israel."  That doesn't just imply, but outright states that the number in question is Israelites of whatever tribe.  And yet, Jesus, no matter what version of bible you care to use, no matter what sect of Christianity you care to reference, clearly preached to and converted non-Israelites, and told them they would be able to get to heaven through believing in him.

Sorry, but Jesus trumps John's bad acid-trip.  Try again.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 03:38:27 pm by Scotty »

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
That passage clearly says "tribes of the children of Israel."  That doesn't just imply, but outright states that the number in question is Israelites of whatever tribe.  And yet, Jesus, no matter what version of bible you care to use, no matter what sect of Christianity you care to reference, clearly preached to and converted non-Israelites, and told them they would be able to get to heaven through believing in him.

Sorry, but Jesus trumps Pauls bad acid-trip.  Try again.

So you're saying Christianity pulled a Jesus out of the hat to get more followers...  kinda like Scientology pulled a Tom Cruise ? :)

What's next? Believe in ME if you want 73 experienced courtesans AND a free washing machine... in heaven?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
That passage clearly says "tribes of the children of Israel."  That doesn't just imply, but outright states that the number in question is Israelites of whatever tribe.  And yet, Jesus, no matter what version of bible you care to use, no matter what sect of Christianity you care to reference, clearly preached to and converted non-Israelites, and told them they would be able to get to heaven through believing in him.

Sorry, but Jesus trumps Pauls bad acid-trip.  Try again.

So you're saying Christianity pulled a Jesus out of the hat to get more followers...  kinda like Scientology pulled a Tom Cruise ? :)

What's next? Believe in ME if you want 73 experienced courtesans AND a free washing machine... in heaven?

Holy **** I need a ****ing washing machine

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
So it's just the Jews for Jesus who are ****ed then? :p
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
Ignoring the fact that a man who believed he talked to God was president of America for 8 years doesn't exactly do much to to make me believe you. Especially given that Reagan's Evil Empire speech actually did come quite close to causing a nuclear war. Put those two together and you should be able to see that a single crazy in the right place could cause the massive devastation you seem to consider unlikely.

Cite sources. Credible sources. And that will be a believable argument.

However as it stands the entire system is set up to prevent exactly that. You can't simply give the order; it has to be validated, approved, etc. The two man rule, and so forth. There are very few nuclear powers who don't go to extreme lengths to prevent this exact scenario from ever coming about. I suppose if you were in Pakistan or something you could try to trigger the end of the world, but that'd be somewhat difficult because people retaliating against Pakistan isn't going to provoke everyone else.

I could go to absurd lengths describing the problems someone would have had starting a nuclear war on their own and my information on the subject dates back to 1970. The failsafes have only gotten more elaborate. (And both Russia and China maintain more complex systems than the US for political reasons.)

In fact I'm reasonably sure of all the Western powers only the Brits have a methodology in place that would permit the use of nuclear weapons on one person's word, and even then it's dependent on there being no one left to give orders to the strike assets, which would be difficult to engineer.

I'm referring to the number who get into heaven. Ever. Including those already dead. Not the number raptured in.

Yes but you're quoting the psychedelic madness of Revelation out of context, which is the first step on the road to insanity. :p Nevermind the number; the sealed could mean damn near anything.
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Offline Mikes

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
Holy **** I need a ****ing washing machine

Woot, I have my first follower!!!! :)

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
it only takes one doomsday cult stealth candidate to get into office with the goal of starting a nuclear war.

Iran's leaders actually built a whole palace for the return of the 12th Imam... Ayatollah Hussein Nuri Hamdani explicitly said in 2005 that “the Jews should be fought against and forced to surrender to prepare the way for the coming of the Hidden Imam.”

Now are you gonna sleep better at night knowing that a potential future nuclear power is bat**** religious crazy?

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Iraq pull out announced
Cite sources. Credible sources. And that will be a believable argument.

Read up on Able Archer 83. Reagan, almost completely by accident, managed to bring the world to the brink of a nuclear war. Bush managed to lead his county into 2 different wars and might have managed a third if he hadn't ****ed up Iraq preventing him going into Iran. If you're going to say you aren't resourceful enough to combine the two and deliberately start off a large war then I'd have to say that simply means you're admitting that you're not very good at the Xanatos Gambit. :p
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 10:54:25 am by karajorma »
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