Author Topic: rig++;  (Read 6230 times)

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Offline Nuke

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i just got a call from the alaska dividend office, and i once again am eligable for what i like to call "this state sucks anti-tax". so im gonna take my chunk of the state's oil revenue and allocate $800 of it to a new rig (not including shipping).

$800 isnt much so im not going to try to outperform my current system (which i believe is entering its death throws) by a large margin. in fact im not even putting performance at the top of my list. so this computer must:

be compact, i want a computer which doesnt break every time i try to move it. and something that i can fit on my desk (my floor bound rig has evolved hyper intelligent dust bunnies).
be quiet, my a380 fans annoy the **** out of me
be power efficient, not so much for the environment, but to reduce tdp and heat and therefore use smaller fans (see 2), and to make it so i can run it off the battery arrays we use in the sticks
equal or better performance than my current c2q rig

i intend to recycle some parts from my main rig. due to the hard drive price hike, it is likely i will use the same hard drive i am using now. i also cannot justify buying another optical drive, and i might reuse the card reader, though neither of these drives are all that expensive. i am also willing to forgo getting a better graphics card, and use the gtx260 i currently run (but buy a lesser card for my old rig for starcraft 2 non-lan parties). i will however try to get these things if budget allows.

i favor intel and nvidia. under no circumstances will i insert an asus product into my rig. msi is my perfered mobo brand right now. i used to also like dfi, but until i am certain the problems with my rig are not motherboard related this is off the radar. id be willing to consider other brands though. so i will need:

parts i definately need:
 case, something with a micro atx or smaller form factor. small case preferred.
 mobo, micro atx or smaller (this ultimately determines case selection)
 psu, need a parts list to even consider wattage. might just use what comes with the case and adjust part selection to stay within its output 
 cpu, im thinking i5 or i7. i looked awhile back and a lynnfield caught my eye, it had lower tdp from other i7s, didnt have hyperthreading though, but surely new cpu lines have come into existence since then.
 ram, likely 8gb ddr3
 wifi card, must be compatable with my b/g router, though will try to something that also works with n

parts i might get if cashflow allows (in order of priority):
 video card, likely geforce 500 series
 hd, 640gb to 1tb
 flash reader, cheap doesnt matter
 optical drive, regular dvd burner, none of that blue ray crap

probable accessories:
 high quality, high cfm, low noise fans
 non-stock cpu cooler (ive never used one before)
 sata hot swap bay (for backup)

nothing is decided yet, starting reserch now.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 01:04:20 pm by Nuke »
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Offline achtung

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Get i5 2500k. Best price/performance. You probably wont miss hyperthreading too much because quad-core.

You get better price/performance ratio with AMD video cards (consider a 6950). Also, the drivers arent horribad anymore.

EDIT: Also, consider a Z68 board.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 01:06:00 pm by Swantz »
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Offline jr2

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Did you read this?  I found it interesting (was posted in another hardware thread earlier)  Perhaps get the same motherboard and get the processor later?  Sucker's out of stock on Newegg ATM though.  (Gigabyte P67A-UD5)

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sandy-bridge-overclocking-efficiency,2850-4.html

 

Offline LHN91

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what C2Q are you currently running? Yeah, the i5 is a pretty good balance, but at least where I am it runs around 239.99 + tax Canadian, which eats a lot of your budget, and it seems you have a relatively modest build in mind, with no overclocking in mind.

I admittedly am a bit of an AMD fanboy, but a Phenom II x4 or x6 is still going to run fairly quick, and not eat as much of your budget. Heck, the Athlon II x4 640 would be enough to get you within spitting distance of a lower end first generation i5, and that'll only set you back 99.99 + tax, at a 95w tdp. Last price/performance graph I saw puts the 640 right at the same level as the 2500k. Yeah, that does mean its only a bit more than half as fast. But still, when building on a budget that gives you a LOT of spare budget room for other stuff.


 

Offline StarSlayer

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Narf I read through the first paragraph and thought you were investing $800 back into developing more oil rigs for Alaska.  Derp Derp Derp.
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Offline Nuke

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what C2Q are you currently running? Yeah, the i5 is a pretty good balance, but at least where I am it runs around 239.99 + tax Canadian, which eats a lot of your budget, and it seems you have a relatively modest build in mind, with no overclocking in mind.

I admittedly am a bit of an AMD fanboy, but a Phenom II x4 or x6 is still going to run fairly quick, and not eat as much of your budget. Heck, the Athlon II x4 640 would be enough to get you within spitting distance of a lower end first generation i5, and that'll only set you back 99.99 + tax, at a 95w tdp. Last price/performance graph I saw puts the 640 right at the same level as the 2500k. Yeah, that does mean its only a bit more than half as fast. But still, when building on a budget that gives you a LOT of spare budget room for other stuff.

currently running a q9550 @ 2.83ghz and i dont like to overclock.

and im not going to exclude the possibility of going against my cpu (or gpu for that matter) preferences for the sake of stretching my budget.
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Offline LHN91

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Okay so you were already within spitting distance of a lower end first gen i5. Point remains, even a Phenom II x6 is going to cost you less than an i5 2500k. if you want to go intel, seeing as you don't overclock, go with something that doesn't have the 'k' in it. It'll save you some cash and not lose you any functionality in terms of how you plan to use it.

 

Offline Nuke

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Okay so you were already within spitting distance of a lower end first gen i5. Point remains, even a Phenom II x6 is going to cost you less than an i5 2500k. if you want to go intel, seeing as you don't overclock, go with something that doesn't have the 'k' in it. It'll save you some cash and not lose you any functionality in terms of how you plan to use it.

having a hex core would be pretty awesome. so i am taking it under consideration.

im currently looking at cases. small case is preferable, mainly because i want to keep the shipping down to a sane level (simply living in alaska makes this somewhat difficult). im going to avoid getting anything with clear panels led lighting, or doors. its not a house for dust bunnies.
heres a cube case from a brand i trust, kinda pricy and no psu.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133187
i looked at this one awhile back, it was more expensive then, now its affordable. like the cooling arrangement, if its not enough it looks like there are hardpoints for 4 120mm fans. probably also as big as im willing to go for a tower.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108236
this one is tiny, only slim case with full height card slots. but im not too sure about cooling and power is only 400w. given the size of the psu bay this one would be tight power wise. better fans are a definite must.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811192087
this one is tinyish and has a good rating, most importantly its cheap, unidentified psu though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811153118

and thats about it, id probibly go with a cheeper case if there is no psu.

*edit*
good tip on the phenom II x6, im gonna read some revies but this just jumped to the top of my cpu list.
*edit again*
on second thought the single core performance of the phenom II x6 is kinda weak compaired to what intel has to offer. im going to have to weigh more cores vs better cores on this one.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 06:15:24 pm by Nuke »
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Offline Nuke

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k this post is about the cpu front.

on the amd side, the most expensive phenom II x6 that newegg cerries (1100t). also the cheapest cpu on my list. after some reading on toms hardware im leaning away from this.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103913

for intel i have a couple of picks. the i7-950 and the i5-2500. the i5 is $20 more then the phenom, and the i7 $50 on top of that. this is the cheapest i7 quad that newegg seems to have. but i want it and i will try to get it if at all possible. the i7 is power hungry, and the need for a higher performance psu will screw me big. so in all likelihood il pick the i5 (unless i either seriously compromise on graphics or get real luckey).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115211
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115073
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Offline LHN91

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the i7 really isn't worth the extra money, honestly. The performance edge is comparatively trivial, and you'd need to spend extra on a fairly robust power supply on top of that.

I still say the Phenom is a good chip, especially if you tend to run all kinds of things simultaneously. But, at the same time, the i5 is a solid chip. I don't think you'd be disappointed with either one.

On the case... I'd go with the IN WIN Dragon Slayer, and grab a good brand name power supply. You can get away with a mid-range 500w PSU with the i5, but I've seen one too many computers plagued by crashes brought on by substandard power supplies; plus that gives you some wiggle room in terms of later upgrades.

 

Offline Nuke

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amd is certainly still on the plate, of course till i have a complete system plan and add up the numbers im exploring multiple avenues. going with the i5 also gives me a slightly higher frequency chip, which might take up some of the slack from not having an i7.

mobo selection tiem:

after looking at the selection of mircoatx mobos for the phenom II, im am starting to distance myself from that cpu. ive looked at several and needless to say im not impressed. i tend to go for around $120 when looking at mobos, but the best one i could find was this and its only $94, so if i go amd this is what im getting:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128440

im not going to look at the i7 just yet, and i probibly wont unless i run up a surplus of funds. for the i5:
i like this one. dispite never hearing of this brand before, but the rating is good. it has the best memory options
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157270
taking the conservative route, with a brand i trust (though not quite the features i want)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130598
and as usual the most expensive board on the page, good memory options
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128523

for the most part all these mobos are the same. better memory options translates into more expensive memory.

for ****s and giggles i did a search for an i7 board, seems theres only 1 in microatx form factor and its more than what i typically spend. i7 is starting to look damned.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130227

from here memory is easy. im just gonna look to see the general cost, ultimately i will consult the manufacturer to get recommended modules. the i7 will need 12 gigs to take advantage of the 3 channel mode. for all boards it looks like 1333 will be the speed. some of the boards i picked support faster speeds, like 1666, but none at that speed seems to exist on newegg. but here im supprised 12gb is only $70 while 8gb is around $50. so this gives me enough to continue on with my reserch. i may also consider 16gb if i have the money, depending on surplus.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:07:29 pm by Nuke »
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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if you're worried about single thread performance on the AMD, think about the highest quad core phenom.  it's clocked higher, usually does a bit better in gaming benchmarks, and costs less to boot.  the other thing to consider in amd vs. intel is that amd motherboards are generally a good bit cheaper than comparable intels. 
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Offline LHN91

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Bear in mind that with any Phenom II you can run an AM3 motherboard instead of an AM3+ with no real penalty. I saw the one you picked out was an AM3+, you likely could get more features at the same price with an AM3 board.

EDIT: Unless of course you've already looked and there aren't any AM3 microATX boards in that range with more features. I don't have the time atm to search, just keep it in mind.

 

Offline Nuke

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i really wasnt too happy with the mobo selection with the phenom. right now im just trying to establish a general idea of what everything is gonna cost. the i7 is gonna get dropped. the core system only leaves me with about $300 for case, psu, gpu, etc. the phenom and i5 leave me with $465 and $435 respectively. im considering a thermaltake 600w for the i5 system, though i might get away with a 500w model with that chip, it really depends on whatever graphics card i get. $75 in the hole there. the other two chips $90 for a 750w. again actual maths need to be done to figure out exactly how much power i need.

*edit*
i7 eliminated. all the hardware is just too expensive and i wont be able to buy a new hard drive. seems i can get the works with the i7 with a $50 margin of error. the amd system gives me a $70 margin. given the better single core performance and the lower tdp i think im leaning at the i5.

*edit again*
i will likely get a geforce 550 ti. its a shorter card so i can go with a more cram happy case and thus save money on shipping. i might be able to get something better if i can trim the build abit.

*edit again*
ran my theoretical i5 rig through a power supply calculator and it turns out i only need 375 watts. so i might drop to a 500w.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 10:17:12 pm by Nuke »
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Offline LHN91

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I'm running a system right now with a 95w CPU and a Radeon 4870 512mb (which draws a fair bit, needs two 6 pin connections) on a 500w Cooler Master, and it's running fine; though, admittedly a 500w one from a budget manufacturer would likely not be enough.

650w would give you a fair bit of breathing room with the i5. Mine's an Athlon II x4 620 on a cheap ASUS microATX in a Cooler Master Eite 342 case, with an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 CPU cooler, originally built about 2 years ago. It's served me quite well.

As a side note, that Arctic Freezer is an EXCELLENT cooler, and only runs about $30 Canadian. Was really quite easy to install, at least on an AM2+ board. IIRC intel boards are a bit more annoying to install aftermarket coolers on.

EDIT: Check the requirement on the graphics card in terms of 12v rail requirements. Many 500w PSU's don't put out enough power on the 12v rail.

EDIT AGAIN: just looked, the 550ti only asks for a 400w PSU, but still I would go with a 500w minimum, from a good name.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 10:27:03 pm by LHN91 »

 

Offline KyadCK

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A PSU calc I use and would trust would be this, because it both takes overhead and mild overclock into consideration and suggests PSUs that have proven to be good. I still pad the power draw a bit, but the fact it gives you a list is nice. For a i5-2500 and 550ti (and a few other options) it claims 425w to be safe, but I would also bump it to 500w and use that list just to be safe. For a fair comparison it says LHN91's cpu and gpu should need 450w.

Don't know much about nVidia, but I do know it would probably be better to go with the i5-2500 if only for a more modern chipset and an on-chip gpu to fall back on that can actually DO something if the card dies for whatever reason. (more then normal intelgrated anyway)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 12:23:32 am by KyadCK »
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Offline Nuke

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i like this proggie, it tells me to use a psu i looked at and can afford. :P
really worse case scenario i could always pull the 750w out of this rig.
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Offline LHN91

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And yeah, you could easily do that. Or alternatively, if you plan to hang on to the old one for any reason (I hate retiring systems until they're entirely toasted) you could grab a cheap generic one to let it live on, at least as a spare box/htpc or something.

Admittedly, I nearly fried a 450w in this system once. EDIT: It started giving off a hot electronics smell while I was gaming, caught it before it fried, ended up reusing it elsewhere) Of course, that was an old CoolMax, and a piece of junk.

And I mean I hate retiring systems. The 1.8 ghz (OC'd to 1.9/2.0, can't remember exactly) Northwood P4 system, with USB1.1 and 1 GB of RAM, Radeon 2400 Pro AGP, 40 gb HD and (believe it or not) Win7 I replaced when I built this one is still acting as a basic HTPC for my aunt. The 2400 can do at least some DXVAing, which lets it handle most 720p x264 files.

 

Offline Cyborg17

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I hate retiring PC's too, to the point of being unhealthy.  My computer is a frankenstein which uses parts from 3 different computers and no longer has its original processor.  And even that change is so old that I'm still using a Pentium 4 3.4 Ghz single core. 

  
It always pains me whenever a customer tells me they replaced their laptop or PC because it 'broke down', extremely likely it wasnt a hardware failure at all in most cases. Of course nothing can be done about that, but it just show that if someone's smart and has free time he could go around buying old/'broken' PCs from others, fix them and resell.

There's a really well saturated market of mid-high level performance hardware out these days that rivals the top of the line stuff of the older generations. Best to continue doing research where needed and then make a well thought out decision. It's hard to go wrong with a decent budget of 500-600 dollar (For me personally building a mid-high level PCs for 250-300 euro (350-400 dollar), without monitor, is easily doable and even enjoyable.)
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