[karajorma]

What really makes me laugh is the "Steam is the least invasive kind of DRM" argument. It's like arguing that being smacked in the testicles with a mallet is better than a sledgehammer with someone who is saying "I don't like getting smacked in the testicles!"

[Mikes]

What really makes me laugh is the "Steam is the least invasive kind of DRM" argument. It's like arguing that being smacked in the testicles with a mallet is better than a sledgehammer with someone who is saying "I don't like getting smacked in the testicles!"

Well you can look at it this way... Steam may smack you in the testicles, but EA ripps em off and makes you eat them

[Klaustrophobia]

his point being, don't let either of them do that.

[Mongoose]

I think the majority of us would argue that Steam doesn't involve any nut-smacking by and large, and in fact provides several tangible benefits, even on top of the regular crazy-awesome sales.  For instance, having an IM client/social-networking function built right into the service is quite frankly a godsend.  I've never come across anything Steam does that has inconvenienced me more than having to enter a CD key during installation, or needing to keep a game disk in my drive while playing, both of which I'd label non-issues.

[karajorma]

You could provide those benefits without the DRM aspect though. Again, it's like arguing the mallet is okay as long as they buy you flowers afterwards.

[LordMelvin]

Again, it's like arguing the mallet is okay as long as they buy you flowers afterwards.

It's more like a ping-pong paddle than a mallet, really. And she's doing a lot more than just buying flowers after, if you don't mind my abusing the metaphor. Seriously, it's a pain in the butt sometimes, but it's a lot of fun, too, as long as you don't end up with ropeburn.



*Note: This post is not necessarily reflective of my personal recreational habits.*

[Klaustrophobia]

what a lot of you call benefits i personally call annoying bloat.  if you want them, by all means download steam.  i've got nothing against that.  the ONLY reason steam is on my computer is because it was forced on there by a physical copy of a game.  and the only reason they did that is so they could advertise with it.  that, i DO have something against.

[Mongoose]

You could provide those benefits without the DRM aspect though. Again, it's like arguing the mallet is okay as long as they buy you flowers afterwards.

But when you have a DRM scheme as benign and unobtrusive as Steam's, is there even any malevolence to it in the first place?  I certainly appreciate the GOG.com sentiment as much as the next fellow, but I also don't view the general concept of DRM, at least as far as its basic intentions go, as being an inherent evil.  Hell, while GOG.com is doing well, there was just an article the other day estimating that The Witcher 2 had been torrented about 4 million times, give or take.  If a publisher takes some basic step to prevent that, as long as it doesn't get in the way of my gaming experience in any sense, I'm not exactly going to mind it.

[Mr. Vega]

I often see this defence of Steam but I never seem to see anyone considering what happens if another company, let's say EA, bought Valve.

Your scenario is roughly as sane and logical as if my net worth were suddenly to be measured by the number of lolcat pictures stored on my hard drive.

You posit a very-low-order-of-probability hypothetical in the face of a certainty; Steam is the least-intrusive and least-troublesome form of DRM currently being pushed by anyone of consequence, with the added bonus that it also allows the cheap purchase of games and removes the necessity of physical media. Why should we even treat your commentary as serious?

Never underestimate the ability of management (or new management) to wreck a brilliantly successful system.

[Aardwolf]

Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.

[Mikes]

Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.

Yup... on a desktop I think Steam is "ok" as far as the user experience goes... but on a laptop without constant internet connection I would definitely agree that it can be very annoying.

Hell, while GOG.com is doing well, there was just an article the other day estimating that The Witcher 2 had been torrented about 4 million times, give or take.  If a publisher takes some basic step to prevent that, as long as it doesn't get in the way of my gaming experience in any sense, I'm not exactly going to mind it.

While I do not know how well the Witcher did, I'd just like to point out that "torrent numbers" are completely irrelevant. First... any game with DRM gets torrented within the week of release too, if not earlier. Second... what matters is sales numbers. And while you can argue that "the pirates would have bought it if it had DRM" (very doubtful LOL), you can as well argue that the DRM costs you sales by alieniating your honest customers.

There are quite a couple of games that I do not buy (and not pirate either) because of some a**hat DRM scheme... their loss. There are way too many games to play them all, so if one publisher thinks they can annoy their customers too much.... I simply go buy and play something else.


Here's their take btw: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/29/interview-cd-projekts-ceo-on-witcher-2-piracy-why-drms-still-not-worth-it/

Dunno about you...  but I'm more than happy to buy their games. The Witcher 2 was not only fantastic... it could be bought without being screwed over by any DRM as well. Win Win in my eyes;)

[Mongoose]

Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.

Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update.  There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.

And Mikes, I do agree and understand that the whole DRM/piracy/whatever picture is far more complex than my pithy statement made it out to be.  My underlying point was that I do understand the sentiment behind companies wanting to attempt to protect their works, even if the vast majority of the modern attempts at it are irritating at best and horrific at worst.  CD Projekt has taken a fairly unique approach to the problem with GOG.com, one I certainly applaud them for and greatly appreciate.  Valve has taken a somewhat-different approach with Steam, making the DRM about as unobtrusive as possible while adding a significant amount of value to the overall gaming experience, at least in my own opinion.  I don't view either method as being more correct than the other, just different, and I'll happily utilize both.

[Nuke]

Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.

Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update.  There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.

some of us dont have access to sane networks. even the internet i pay for probably couldn't handle the demands steam would place on it. all the computers on my router eat up 1/4 of my transfer cap just to keep the os and virus scanners up to date (i even gone as far as disabling updates on some of the machines). having to keep games up to date, and even downloading games i bought through the service would cripple my internet connection. i know gamers that have it worse off than me as well. the whole thing where you have to have an internet connection to play games. some games and services that sport an offline option still require occasional validations over the internet. which is a real pita for rural gamers.

[LordMelvin]

Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.

Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update.  There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.

some of us dont have access to sane networks. even the internet i pay for probably couldn't handle the demands steam would place on it. all the computers on my router eat up 1/4 of my transfer cap just to keep the os and virus scanners up to date...
snip...
which is a real pita for rural gamers.

I feel so glad that I can just drive for twenty minutes to hop on the high-speed wifi at the coffeeshop in town. Thank you for reminding me how much worse off I could be.

[Nuke]

Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.

Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update.  There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.

some of us dont have access to sane networks. even the internet i pay for probably couldn't handle the demands steam would place on it. all the computers on my router eat up 1/4 of my transfer cap just to keep the os and virus scanners up to date...
snip...
which is a real pita for rural gamers.

I feel so glad that I can just drive for twenty minutes to hop on the high-speed wifi at the coffeeshop in town. Thank you for reminding me how much worse off I could be.

i still think its asinine to require your users to do such a thing to use a product that they bought. we dont have coffee shops and if we did they would have the same ****ty connection that i have. my brother in law out in the sticks has no internet at all, and hes a bigger gamer than i am. he mostly resorts to playing newer games on consoles dispute having a fairly decent gaming rig. the reason he has to do this is because most off the shelf games require internet access to keep running. i mean some games work fine but its kinda like playing russian roulette. spend $60 on a game, break the shrink wrap (at which point the game is non-refundable) and hope like hell it can run off grid. its quite sad.

[Aardwolf]

Steam stops being "benign and unobtrusive" when it wants to update and I'm on a network that doesn't have that port open. Result: I can't play any of my games.

Well, then wait until you're on a sane network to update.  There's a lovely offline mode in the meantime.

Offline mode doesn't work. It detects that there's an update available, and tries to install it. I wait for it to realize it can't connect, and then it offers to let me play offline. Offers, but doesn't actually let me.

The only workaround would be to check their website every time I want to play a game, see if there has been an update, and if there has, turn off my internet connection completely before trying to run the game. Which is stupid. I paid for it and it's on my hard drive, so I should be able to play it, anytime, anywhere.

[Dragon]

This happened to me once, and I think it's just a glitch (and it worked just fine, later). You are supposed to be able to run offline mode in such case. If you can't, try reporting it to Valve, chance are they'll fix that. Steam isn't perfect, but it's the best such platform we have. And Valve is improving it constantly. Compared to other DRM systems, I consider it very comfortable to use. Battlefield 3, for example, requires a constant internet connection (according to what I've read on the box) and let's not get started with Starforce or other such systems.
Steam would enter all CD keys for you and provide it's own DRM system instead of ones like Starforce (which makes me consider getting DCS via Steam). I'm not sure about games such as BF3 working in offline mode, but I don't intend to play BF3, except if Steam makes it available for chump change in a time when Euro would be cheap and Polish Zloty strong. (I prefer ArmA games anyway, they are more realistic and only use CD key as DRM).

[Mongoose]

No offense to those living in rural areas, but that demonstrates precisely why I would make good broadband access the top priority when choosing a new residence. And it has nothing to do with just Steam...if I can't even use YouTube properly, there's something wrong. 

And yes, if offline mode isn't working with a particular game, then that's unintended behavior, and contacting Steam support might be a good idea.

[CP5670]

What really makes me laugh is the "Steam is the least invasive kind of DRM" argument. It's like arguing that being smacked in the testicles with a mallet is better than a sledgehammer with someone who is saying "I don't like getting smacked in the testicles!"

I actually find Steam to be more irritating than the other DRM systems in some ways. I hate how it's in your face all the time, with the big ads it shows every time I start it up, not allowing me to choose install directories/drives and the random client or game auto-patching, the latter of which can occur even after I disable it for a game. Most other types of DRM at least stay in the background. I only use it for a few games that require it with the retail version (and which I don't play often enough to bother finding cracked exes for) and some sub-$5 throwaway purchases.

[LHN91]

No offense to those living in rural areas, but that demonstrates precisely why I would make good broadband access the top priority when choosing a new residence. And it has nothing to do with just Steam...if I can't even use YouTube properly, there's something wrong. 

And yes, if offline mode isn't working with a particular game, then that's unintended behavior, and contacting Steam support might be a good idea.

But for those who grew up either in an area with none (like I did), or alternatively those (like me now) who have broadband for school, but when I spend, say Christmas, with my parents, they don't see the point in getting anything better than the $2.95/month discount dialup. It's kinda hard to update a steam game over dialup.

EDIT: And while steam USED to be good about working in offline mode, I've had several times more recently, though, where when away from the internet, I get constant errors trying to get into offline more.