[LHN91]

Having only L2 cache, Its an Athlon II, not Phenom II. And die shrink, no optimization. Non-OEM A8s are all faster or the same as a 620. The A8-3850 is about par with an Athlon II x4 635 (2.9ghz, both), which would make the 2.4ghz A8-3800 about the same as a 610e. OEM people dont like to use full-speed chips.     Still, I stand corrected on the average performance.

The WiH ships in the update are optimized btw, it should run better, just a heads up.

And I stand corrected on the lack of L3 cache and optimization on the A8. My bad However I think you did miss me (finally) realizing it was the 3800 not the 3850 in my second edit.  

Regardless, it's not a particularly poor chip, it handles FSO fairly well, and my point with the RAM speed stands.

And I do plan to replay WiH at some point, I just haven't had the spare time.

[newman]

In my opinion..

Not much in the way of future proofing. Graphics and CPU both leave a lot to be desired. Always, always do tons of research before spending any amount of cash on a new system / component. Might as well use the internet for something other than forum browsing and porn. Weird application, I know, but it pays off.

edit: maybe I was a bit harsh. When I see an integrated, memory sharing GPU solution I tend to have an allergic reaction It is, however, rather cheap for a full system so I guess it's not all bad. Wouldn't expect wonders, especially not gaming-wise.

[KyadCK]

In my opinion..

Not much in the way of future proofing. Graphics and CPU both leave a lot to be desired. Always, always do tons of research before spending any amount of cash on a new system / component. Might as well use the internet for something other than forum browsing and porn. Weird application, I know, but it pays off.

edit: maybe I was a bit harsh. When I see an integrated, memory sharing GPU solution I tend to have an allergic reaction It is, however, rather cheap for a full system so I guess it's not all bad. Wouldn't expect wonders, especially not gaming-wise.

The CPU isn't really that bad, and llano graphics are insanely good (for integrated). Should it ever get too slow, a vid card upgrade down the line gives the cpu the full ram bus as well as stronger video, win win. And ya, in the price range it is -very- hard to beat llano for a gaming system.

And I stand corrected on the lack of L3 cache and optimization on the A8. My bad However I think you did miss me (finally) realizing it was the 3800 not the 3850 in my second edit.  

Regardless, it's not a particularly poor chip, it handles FSO fairly well, and my point with the RAM speed stands.

And I do plan to replay WiH at some point, I just haven't had the spare time.

Ya, I did. I kinda wish it did have a full speed A8, but at least it seems they left the gpu half alone.

And apperently we both missed the fact it has turbo core... up to 2.7ghz. That would make a pretty big difference. Also a bit interesting since it seems only the 3800, 3600, and 3500 have it. Ugh, why do OEMs have to make it so hard on people 

[Klaustrophobia]

just as a "for next time" note, many of us here would have been happy to help you with a custom built PC.  parting it out is the hard(ish) part, and that could be done with help over the internet.  assembling them is like legos for grownups.  don't let inexperience drive you toward an OEM computer.

and as for C&C 4 - here you go.  Keeping in mind that the critic score always DRASTICALLY overrates games, a 66 is abominable.  but that's not even what tells the true story, user scores are far better measures of a game.  and you're right, all C&C games in the past have been excellent.  this one blows because it's NOT a C&C game.  kane is the only weak link it has to the original franchise.

[Charismatic]

I did notice it had integrated graphics, and with 8 gigs i thought that if the GPU took extra ram from the processor that would be fine with how much extra it has. It actually limits the GPU instead of letting it borrow more?

I liked this model over some others because it had a better GPU even tho it was integrated.

Also from your replies it seems your saying the 3800 is not as good as the 3850. I looked when i was doing my research, and the 3800 had a better or similar GPU and it had Turbocore where as the 3500 didn't. What am i missing?

Lastly, what is OEM again and why is it important?

EDIT: Can anyone link me to the HLP C&C4 topic, the main innitial one (when the game came out.) Thanks.

[LHN91]

OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer - or for our purposes, system builders - usually large corporations. I.E. Dell, Asus, etc. The issue is that mass-produced systems are just that - mass produced, often not put together with any sense of care for how the parts will actually work together, and with the intention of getting the maximum profit margin possible. It would not have been more than an extra 20 dollars for faster RAM at todays prices, but that's an element most average people won't notice or won't know any different.

The issue with the RAM isn't the amount; actually, that's an unusually reasonable amount for an OEM system. The issue is with the speed of the RAM - 1333 mhz, vs. 1600 mhz or more; this affects the bandwidth (amount of data that can be transferred per second/unit of time).

You seem to have missed the numbers' significance. It makes sense that the 3800 would be better than the 3500, just look at the numbers. A 3850 has a 200 - 500 mhz (0.2 - 0.5 Ghz) speed edge on a 3800, that's really the only difference (aside from slightly higher power usage).

[KyadCK]

I did notice it had integrated graphics, and with 8 gigs i thought that if the GPU took extra ram from the processor that would be fine with how much extra it has. It actually limits the GPU instead of letting it borrow more?

Well, the on-chip graphics will only allocate up to 1gb to itself (plenty for what it can do). The problem here isnt the amount of ram, its the speed and bus width. The average vid card these days has a 256-bit bus (256 1s and 0s per 'tick' of the clock) usualy running at 1000mhz or faster. Even with dual channel, due to the low speed of the ram, the best you can get is a 128-bit bus at 1333 mhz, and it has to share that with the CPU. The primary issue here is it can't get information to the CPU/GPU fast enough.

I liked this model over some others because it had a better GPU even tho it was integrated.

Yes, at the price point it is very hard to beat an A8. It outshines any intel integrated and almost every nvidia/ati dedicated card you can find in the sub-$600 computer range. Even with the slower ram.

Also from your replies it seems your saying the 3800 is not as good as the 3850. I looked when i was doing my research, and the 3800 had a better or similar GPU and it had Turbocore where as the 3500 didn't. What am i missing?

The A8-3800 runs at a stock clock of 2.4ghz, and can turbo up to 2.7ghz. The A8-3850 runs at a stock clock of 2.9ghz. It doesnt matter that the A8-3800 has turbocore, its still slower. (this logic only applies to CPUs in the same family. i.e. A8-* or i3 2*** and so on.)

As a side note, the A8-3500 is a laptop cpu (and does have turbocore).

Lastly, what is OEM again and why is it important?

OEM: Original Equipment Manufacturer

Dell, HP, Asus, Lenovo, Gateway and others like them are all OEM. In this context, the A8-3800 is an OEM CPU, meaning it is sold only to OEMs like Asus or Dell. The CPU is not available to be bought on its own. Typically, OEM cpus are slower then the consumer available versions.

An OEM is out to make a profit; they will not hesitate to put in cheaper parts (within reason) to bring down the cost. Such as putting in 4 2gb sticks of 1333 instead of the more logical 2 4gb sticks of 1600. Or a 5400rpm harddrive instead of 7200rpm.

OEMs have a positive side, They offer warrantys, support, drivers available on their site, and the fact you don't have to build it yourself. On the other hand you don't get the best quality of hardware, your upgrade paths are limited, and if you modify it there is a chance it breaks your warranty.

Most tech savvy people prefer to build their own computers. It is not hard to match an OEMs price with better hardware inside, and people will help pick out parts if you ask. But you lose the warranty (from the OEM, the parts still have warrantys) and all the services an OEM would provide.

[jg18]

EDIT: Can anyone link me to the HLP C&C4 topic, the main innitial one (when the game came out.) Thanks.

Site-specific Google searches work wonders. It's the same thing that anyone searching for that thread would have to do, since I doubt that anyone has the link lying around.

[Charismatic]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm learning, woot.

I did a site specific search and did not find it -- but i will try again.

[Klaustrophobia]

that made me waste about an hour reading through some of the old thread.  man, i forgot how much everyone seems to hate generals and kane's wrath.  i thought both were quite good.  other than a bit of general bugginess, i thought KW added quite a bit to c&c3.