[Scourge of Ages]

When two men appeared at McKinley's door the young widow, with an infant, called 911.

"This guy is up to no good. My husband just passed away. I'm here alone with my baby. Can I get a dispatch out here?" McKinley said.

According to police, Dustin Stewart and Justin Martin were the two men trying to enter McKinley's home.

"I've got my door locked. I've got guns in my hands. Is it OK to shoot him if he comes in the door?" McKinley asked the 911 operator.

Police say the two men knocked for about 20 minutes and then tried to bust into the home.

McKinley said Martin had a 12-inch knife and came toward her.

McKinley said she then shot and killed him.

http://www.koco.com/r/30132763/detail.html

First, she pushed a couch in front of the front door.

Then, she grabbed her son and "walked over and got the 12-gauge, went in the bedroom and got the pistol and put the bottle in his mouth and then I called 911," she told ABC affiliate KOCO.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/04/9948522-911-to-teen-mom-who-killed-intruder-protect-your-baby

[Sololop]

Never come between a mother and her baby, that's just always a bad idea. I applaud this woman.

[rev_posix]

Sadly, knowing past history of things like this, it wouldn't surprise me that much if the relatives of the guy she shot don't come back and sue her for manslaughter or something along those lines. 

[MP-Ryan]

The 911 conversation lasted for 21 minutes. Then the door gave in.

I have no problem with her shooting the guy, but what I'd really like to know is why a call like this wasn't given immediate priority for police response?  Even if she was out in the sticks, there's no way it should take over 20 minutes for police to respond to an armed intruder attempting to enter a locked home when the occupant calls.

[Dragon]

This is exactly the proper response for that sort of thing. I wish it wasn't so exceptional and confined to US. In Europe, it might get the defender into a long and expensive trial, with no guarantee that she will win. Perhaps if people could defend themselves without fear of being sued, and self-defense training was more accessible, crime would somewhat decrease.

[The E]

This is exactly the proper response for that sort of thing. I wish it wasn't so exceptional and confined to US. In Europe, it might get the defender into a long and expensive trial, with no guarantee that she will win. Perhaps if people could defend themselves without fear of being sued, and self-defense training was more accessible, crime would somewhat decrease.

Cite your sources, please. Both on the "self defence is a legal liability", as well as the "self-defence training decreases crime rates" issue.

[pecenipicek]

This is exactly the proper response for that sort of thing. I wish it wasn't so exceptional and confined to US. In Europe, it might get the defender into a long and expensive trial, with no guarantee that she will win. Perhaps if people could defend themselves without fear of being sued, and self-defense training was more accessible, crime would somewhat decrease.

Cite your sources, please. Both on the "self defence is a legal liability", as well as the "self-defence training decreases crime rates" issue.

for him, "Poland" means Europe.


on the other hand, confidence in police in any case is very low, at least over here in Croatia.

[Dragon]

Cite your sources, please. Both on the "self defence is a legal liability", as well as the "self-defence training decreases crime rates" issue.

The first one occasionally happens in Poland and other countries in Eastern Europe (newspapers sometimes report on them), I've also heard of cases like that popping up in UK. It's not a problem that self defense isn't allowed, but that laws regarding it are complicated enough for sues like that not to be thrown out outright. And there are lawyers who can make it seem like the victim was the attacker, especially in places like Poland. Police and judges are not very respected here. I could provide you a story about a man who shot and killed a burglar in Poland and how he was threated by authorities (not like he should be), provided you know Polish and I can find the article on the internet (I've read it in a newspaper).
The second one seems logical to me, but it's been argued over and over, sometimes on this very forum (hence "Perhaps"). I could most likely find sources for and against it.

[The E]

The problem with the second assertion is that training in the artr of self defence is only one thing. Actually having the mentality necessary to use that training properly in a dangerous situation is a very different one. Hell, I did a couple years' worth of Judo, I still am no good in a fight.

[MP-Ryan]

The second one seems logical to me, but it's been argued over and over, sometimes on this very forum (hence "Perhaps"). I could most likely find sources for and against it.

The most frequently-cited measure is gun ownership, and the data for that measure as a crime-reduction tool is inconsistent across jurisdictions (compare individual US states and Canadian provinces sometime).  I'm not aware of any studies that directly look at self-defense training in relation to crime rate, but I suppose countries with mandatory military service would be a good place to start.

[Flipside]

Sometimes it is necessary to use deadly force if you feel your life is in danger. As the girl herself said, had she not feared for the life of her child, she was unsure if she would have pulled the trigger. Even in the UK, despite a lot of confusion over what our rights are with regards to self- and home-defence, this would almost certainly be treated as such.

That said, it seems strange that no alarm bells were set ringing by the death of the dogs, was this reported? Did she mention the 'creepy man' at that time? Not trying to say that anything could have changed what happened, it's easy to judge in hindsight, but you would have thought someone at the PD would have at least thought, "we'll keep a patrol in the area for the next few weeks, because something is going on...."

[karajorma]

The first one occasionally happens in Poland and other countries in Eastern Europe (newspapers sometimes report on them), I've also heard of cases like that popping up in UK.

If you're talking about Tony Martin, the jury was pretty convinced that he wasn't attempting to defend himself and simply decided to kill anyone who broke into his house even if they were only after his property. One of the victims was shot in the back after all.

If you're talking about Munir Hussain, that was a conviction for repeatedly beating an attacker, outside his house, with a cricket bat, after the attacker was already on the floor and witnesses told him to stop before he killed the man.

Neither case are that similar to this one.

[Nuke]

go figure it morphed into a gun control thread.

[Aardwolf]

What? No it didn't.

[Mort]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16434328

She won't be charged but the other guy who wasn't shot would be charged for first-degree murder. A happy ending

[MP-Ryan]

Eighteen year-old widow Sarah McKinley

Blanchard, Oklahoma

Sarah McKinley's 58 year-old husband

The jokes write themselves.

[G0atmaster]

The 911 conversation lasted for 21 minutes. Then the door gave in.

I have no problem with her shooting the guy, but what I'd really like to know is why a call like this wasn't given immediate priority for police response?  Even if she was out in the sticks, there's no way it should take over 20 minutes for police to respond to an armed intruder attempting to enter a locked home when the occupant calls.

Until I left for school I lived in a place where it took more than 30 minutes to get to town, the sheriff's department, or any place they commonly patrol. And windy, one-lane roads means lights and sirens really don't help much.

[Ravenholme]

The 911 conversation lasted for 21 minutes. Then the door gave in.

I have no problem with her shooting the guy, but what I'd really like to know is why a call like this wasn't given immediate priority for police response?  Even if she was out in the sticks, there's no way it should take over 20 minutes for police to respond to an armed intruder attempting to enter a locked home when the occupant calls.

Until I left for school I lived in a place where it took more than 30 minutes to get to town, the sheriff's department, or any place they commonly patrol. And windy, one-lane roads means lights and sirens really don't help much.

Yeah, I can easily envisage situations where it takes the police 20 minutes to respond, living out in the sticks myself. Especially if they're already busy.

[BloodEagle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16434328

She won't be charged but the other guy who wasn't shot would be charged for first-degree murder. A happy ending

Wait. What? 

[redsniper]

The victim was not charged with any crime. The still living criminal was. This is generally considered to be a good thing and an example of the law actually working the way we'd like it to.