[NexusCron]

How many Armeggedon can a Gigas take down? or hell, a Vishnan Preserver from Age of Aquarius?

[Spoon]

This be a interesting topic mateys, split into its own topic for the sake of my sanity 

One thing you got to consider though, in WoD beams do not pierce shields (only in special cases) but in FreeSpace they do. There will be a considerable difference in durability if a Armageddon has 250000 shield points to throw into the fray. This becomes four times as effective with the AI profile flag $all ships manage shields: turned on. (which was not the case in WoD1 since the flag was made half way into production of the campaign and would have required every mission with capital ships to be rebalanced. But it will be used in WoD2.) And there is also the Xentronium armor that Hertak ships sport, which reduces energy damage by 10% and kinetic damage by 15%. Unmodded shivan beams will deal 100% damage directly to the hull.

[NexusCron]

Ouch Spoon, does that mean that the piercing shields give the GTVA and Shivans an utterly sick advantage over our friends in Wings of Dawn?

[Lorric]

This thread is premature until Wings of Dawn 2 arrives. We haven't seen the LSF's strongest ships, and have barely gotten a sniff of the Cyrva, who are 100 years ahead technologically. LSF vs the CSA is like tribals with spears vs soldiers with machine guns I'm guessing. Like this video of a Cyrva fighter tearing apart a Challenger like it's some pathetic freighter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q73H_ppOkSQ&list=UUxW-7zwlLDcTmdpn2sOKEWg&index=10&feature=plcp

Too powerful. If Spoon is going to make us fight the Cyrva, we don't stand a chance. And I'm guessing neither does the GTVA. And the Shivans? The Cyrva are all about manueverability. You don't think they're just gonna sit in front of a Sathanas, do you?

[NexusCron]

No, but spoon flat out admitted that No weapon in Wings of Dawn penetrates shields, that GTVA and Shivan weapons do. That counts for something.

And Lorric, shivans will adapt, its what they do.

[Lorric]

No, but spoon flat out admitted that No weapon in Wings of Dawn penetrates shields, that GTVA and Shivan weapons do. That counts for something.

And Lorric, shivans will adapt, its what they do.

But Wings of Dawn has shielded capital ships on the flip side

As for the Shivans, I've never thought of them as being very adaptive at all. They certainly didn't adapt to the destruction of the Lucifer, the GTVA scattered the Shivans like pigeons after that. The Shivans also seem to be devoid of any semblance of tactics at all outside of a big picture. They just come head on, all the time, no subtlety at all, they don't even mass for attacks. Nothing but mindless drones really. As for the Sathanas, if that's your idea of adapting, I doubt they just whipped them up. They probably had them the whole time.

[Jellyfish]

Shivans invented shock jumps.

[Lorric]

Shivans invented shock jumps.

I'm not knocking their technology, but I believe they lack the ability to adapt quickly. The GTVA was ahead of the ships they had encountered in FS1 technologically by FS2. It's a good point for the wider question, but I believe the Cyrva could dance around them all the same. I still need to see what the Cyrva can really do though.

[NexusCron]

But Lorric, Yes wings of dawn has shielded capitol ships. Guess what? The Beams of GTVA and SHivan ships completely ignore LSF, CSA, Hertak, ect shields, and hit the hull 100%.

Spoon SAID so.

One thing you got to consider though, in WoD beams do not pierce shields (only in special cases) but in FreeSpace they do. There will be a considerable difference in durability if a Armageddon has 250000 shield points to throw into the fray. This becomes four times as effective with the AI profile flag $all ships manage shields: turned on. (which was not the case in WoD1 since the flag was made half way into production of the campaign and would have required every mission with capital ships to be rebalanced. But it will be used in WoD2.) And there is also the Xentronium armor that Hertak ships sport, which reduces energy damage by 10% and kinetic damage by 15%. Unmodded shivan beams will deal 100% damage directly to the hull.

[Jellyfish]

Thing is, most FS2 Shivan warships have their beams on front. All the beams in the world won't help if the enemy gets to a spot he can hit you but you can't hit it.

Shivans vs LSF would be a shock jump fest with no clear winner until the Shivans bring in the Ravanas and the Sathanes.
Shivans vs CSA is a spectacular victory for the CSA.

I wonder how would Maxim + Cyclops and mass drivers/railguns + Apocalypse barrages work against them.

[Dragon]

CSA would most likely get butchered against a Raynor, or even a Titan regardless of the approach angle (except directly from behind). UEF ships would have problems, but their Apocalypse torpedoes are quite good at all-round coverage.
Strafing them would be difficult due to large amount of AAA beams (not shield piercing, but still deadly), and Maxim won't get through the shield.
Strangely, Ravana and Sathanas would be dead against LSF ships, as Sathanas would be flanked and "cherry tapped" to death (Ravana would just get killed). These ships have no real armament except directly up front. Colossus, on the other hand, would be a hairy target even for CSA, especially with beams overloaded.

[NexusCron]

I think that while GTVA has fewer ships then say, LSF or CSA, I think their quality is much better, I mean good grief, does the GTVA need to make them any bigger? Lets also consider that their beams ignore shields, wouldn't that shock the living daylights out of the CSA and LSF, who have shielded capitol ships? JUst asking.

[MatthTheGeek]

And this is why I think cross-universe stuff is retarded.

[Spoon]

But Lorric, Yes wings of dawn has shielded capitol ships. Guess what? The Beams of GTVA and SHivan ships completely ignore LSF, CSA, Hertak, ect shields, and hit the hull 100%.

Spoon SAID so.

Well what I more meant to say with that is, is that will be the results unless you adept a FS2 ship to work with the WoD rules. I was speaking from a game technical/modding perspective with that post. From a fluff perspective I would say that the invading force would have to obey the laws&physics of the universe they are invading. So if the shivans were to invade LSF space, they'd be subject to their beams not piercing shields and the reverse would apply if the LSF would invade Shivan space.
Of course there would be a defender advantage in this case, as the defenders ships are optimized for the laws of their own universe

CSA would most likely get butchered against a Raynor, or even a Titan regardless of the approach angle (except directly from behind). UEF ships would have problems, but their Apocalypse torpedoes are quite good at all-round coverage.

Except, you are wrong.
A single CSA Ascension class singlehandly takes on a GTD Titan and GTD Raynor (at the same time) and comes out on top with around 50-70% hull left (depending if the Titan is placed broadside or not). And this damage to the hull was only taken because the beams pierced the shields. The larger size of the Titan&Raynor is only a disadvantage in this case, as less turrets will be able to target the smaller ship.

In any case its a silly comparison to make, both mods are not balanced with each other in mind. WoD weapon and ship stats on average are a scale higher than FreeSpace weapons. (The VX-02a for example does more damage than the Prometheus S cannon. And the Ray 3's shields are twice that of an Ursa) And the LSF alone vastly outnumbers the GTVA in capital ship numbers. Both mods are balanced to themselves to try and tell a story. Not to have some kind of competition with each other 

[Lorric]

CSA would most likely get butchered against a Raynor, or even a Titan regardless of the approach angle (except directly from behind). UEF ships would have problems, but their Apocalypse torpedoes are quite good at all-round coverage.

Except, you are wrong.
A single CSA Ascension class singlehandly takes on a GTD Titan and GTD Raynor (at the same time) and comes out on top with around 50-70% hull left (depending if the Titan is placed broadside or not). And this damage to the hull was only taken because the beams pierced the shields. The larger size of the Titan&Raynor is only a disadvantage in this case, as less turrets will be able to target the smaller ship.

In any case its a silly comparison to make, both mods are not balanced with each other in mind. WoD weapon and ship stats on average are a scale higher than FreeSpace weapons. (The VX-02a for example does more damage than the Prometheus S cannon. And the Ray 3's shields are twice that of an Ursa) And the LSF alone vastly outnumbers the GTVA in capital ship numbers. Both mods are balanced to themselves to try and tell a story. Not to have some kind of competition with each other 
[/quote]

Yes, I thought about mentioning WoD's pumped up stats too, but I was too lazy to go to the wiki page to get the concrete stats. I could imagine a wing of Zy fighters running wild in the Freespace 2 universe, never mind the Cyrva. I wonder if the GTVA aside from shield piercers or running into an anti capship beam would have anything that could get through a sweeper's shields, never mind the upgraded version (and a bone to pick with you there Spoon, despite what is said in the game on the first encounter, mocking the ship, the upgrade is very substantial.)

[Lorric]

Oh, that didn't come out right. How do you get Spoon's quote like Dragon's quote?

[NexusCron]

..Why is it that for some reason, Cyrvan remind me of Minbari?

[Quanto]

And this is why I think cross-universe stuff is retarded.

I ****ing love cross-universe stuff. I say somebody should mod together the CSA/LSF + GTVA/Shivan craft put them together into a mod, and fred something together. See who wins
No balancing of tables, no modifying this or that, just pure vanilla table entries from each side.

[Colonol Dekker]

but dawn... she's so awesome she can move ears just by thinking it. :p

She's awwwwesome


Oh, and....


Hertak = UEF :p

[Commander Zane]

..Why is it that for some reason, Cyrvan remind me of Minbari?

Is my comment on the CSA Ascension video involved in any way?