[KyadCK]

*snip*
Someone find me a 15-pin to USB adapter.

I've had one joystick for six years
What in the hell have you been doing to yours?

    They all work fine, just not on the comp I want to use them on.

The CH Flightstick (tan one) is a 2 button, the Logitech Wingman is a 2 button + throttle and more comfortable (Used to play Terminal Velocity with these), the interesting one to the top left has a horrible grip (made for way too small of hands), but it had more buttons. Then came the Sidewinder 3D Pro. That would have been the end of it, but its gameport. There are no 64-bit drivers for gameport.

Later came the Attack 3. It was ok... kinda... considering it was all I could afford. Thought I lost it at one point, it so I replaced it... only to find the first one again. Took the spring out of the 'old' one. Wanted a real throttle because I had games that would support multible controlers, got the USB Pro Throttle.

Eventualy got the Extreme 3D Pro, which I use now.

I also had, but can not find, a joystick that could be detached from the base (gyro sensing?) and had 2 triggers (index and middle fingers). Oh, and this:

Which I can not find drivers for to save my life even though I have Need For Speed II (The -real- NFS2) on the P4 box which does have a working gameport. 

[deathfun]

Ah

Well generally, when someone has a large collection of a single product, one tends to believe that they're dead or useless
That clarifies that

[Trivial Psychic]

Which I can not find drivers for to save my life even though I have Need For Speed II (The -real- NFS2) on the P4 box which does have a working gameport. 

That would be the first Hot Persuit, right?  I've played that before, but I got most of my enjoyment on NFSIII - High Stakes.  I was never that good at it, but it was quite fun, especially when I played online, as its web interface was quite modable.  I too played using a wheel + foot pedals.

[mr.WHO]

Well, I'm looking for a joystick too. Twice I had and ocassion to buy something nice and twice, when I return to mall with money someone bought them :

cheaper:
http://tech.wp.pl/kat,1009779,title,Joystick-Tracer-TRJ-202-Black-Hawk,wid,11830597,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=1d9c3

more expensive (I had an ocasion to buy it at 80% discount but it was the last one from display and they lost the box with all cables, drivers and instruction (((   )
http://saitek.com/uk/prod/x52pro.html

Bad for me is that all malls in my city are badly understocked after christmass/new year season and I don't like eBay ordering

[KyadCK]

Which I can not find drivers for to save my life even though I have Need For Speed II (The -real- NFS2) on the P4 box which does have a working gameport. 

That would be the first Hot Persuit, right?  I've played that before, but I got most of my enjoyment on NFSIII - High Stakes.  I was never that good at it, but it was quite fun, especially when I played online, as its web interface was quite modable.  I too played using a wheel + foot pedals.

NFS3 HP was the first hot pursuit, NFS2 was just normal tracks. No cash earning, no detailing the cars, no cops. (Not to be confused with NFS HP II)

NFS II:

Well, I'm looking for a joystick too. Twice I had and ocassion to buy something nice and twice, when I return to mall with money someone bought them :

cheaper:
http://tech.wp.pl/kat,1009779,title,Joystick-Tracer-TRJ-202-Black-Hawk,wid,11830597,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=1d9c3

more expensive (I had an ocasion to buy it at 80% discount but it was the last one from display and they lost the box with all cables, drivers and instruction (((   )
http://saitek.com/uk/prod/x52pro.html

Bad for me is that all malls in my city are badly understocked after christmass/new year season and I don't like eBay ordering

Try Amazon? They ship worldwide I think, and have a fair selection.

[Mongoose]

Then came the Sidewinder 3D Pro. That would have been the end of it, but its gameport. There are no 64-bit drivers for gameport.

The person in the Descent community isn't making the converters himself anymore, but he has all of the schematics and requisite software available.  If you have any experience with basic electronics and/or are willing to learn, it might not be too hard to piece one together yourself.

[Cyker]

Yeah, the new one is even easier to make because you don't need a programmer for an ATMega anymore - The teensy chip that it's based on can be programmed via the same USB port that it uses to send joystick data to the computer. I even got a firmware update from grendle to let the converter work in Win98 

Here's a link to the main topic - http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15526


If you don't want to make it yourself, it is worth checking over at descentbb now and then as it seems sometimes people do little production runs by themselves but that requires extreme patience. (I think I was waiting something like 5 years for koolbear's original run and it went through 5 or 6 different revisions in that time and then from an ATmega-based one which was a ***** to make to the current teensy-based version )

[Mongoose]

I grabbed one of Grendel's original ones myself.  (Holy crap, was it really six years ago?) He even had a little Pyro-GX outline etched onto the board.

[Cyker]

Yeah, the Pyro etch was a cool touch

I'm jealous!

[Lorric]

...That's a shame though, Logitech has never failed me... and yet it seems to hate everyone else...

It's never failed me either. Heck, I wouldn't have upgraded from my old Logitech Wingman (The one I used to play Wing Commander 2, back in the nineties - Two axis plus a throttle, two buttons, manual calibration dials on the base so you could try to fix what your annoying kid sibling did to your settings...) if it wasn't for the combination of not having a gameport connection on my new rig and the bit of the cord that the (presumed) mouse got to a couple years back.

Well LordMelvin, I have the joystick, but I have problems. You or anyone else can answer. I don't know how anyone can play anything approaching effectively with this stiff thing. It seems especially hard to go from side to side quickly. I've seen people mentioning taking the spring out. Did you take yours out? Also, how would I get the throttle thing to work, it doesn't for me, and I can't just push a button to bind it to something in the options. Oh, and does taking the spring out bring problems of it's own, I'm assuming it makes the joystick loose, but would it be too loose to sit on centre for instance? And if the recommendation is to remove the spring, I would welcome advice from anyone who has taken it out. Any help would be welcome please.

[Lorric]

Oh, this is the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro I'm talking about here.

[Lorric]

Advice on people's sensitivity and deadzone settings would be welcome too.

[LordMelvin]

Well LordMelvin, I have the joystick, but I have problems. You or anyone else can answer. I don't know how anyone can play anything approaching effectively with this stiff thing. It seems especially hard to go from side to side quickly. I've seen people mentioning taking the spring out. Did you take yours out? Also, how would I get the throttle thing to work, it doesn't for me, and I can't just push a button to bind it to something in the options. Oh, and does taking the spring out bring problems of it's own, I'm assuming it makes the joystick loose, but would it be too loose to sit on centre for instance? And if the recommendation is to remove the spring, I would welcome advice from anyone who has taken it out. Any help would be welcome please.

There's a throttle axis bind setting somewhere in the config mappings, though I'm currently in the middle of a couple processor-heavy things and can't dig through to exactly where, I'm afraid. I seem to recall it being fairly close to where I set rot-x to roll.

I never removed my spring - I like a little stiffness to my controls, but if (since) you don't I'd strongly suggest upping the x-sensitivity before going to hardware modifications. That, and go just practice maneuvering in a random tutorial mission - the difference between the arrow keys and a stick is pretty big, and takes getting used to.

[Lorric]

Well LordMelvin, I have the joystick, but I have problems. You or anyone else can answer. I don't know how anyone can play anything approaching effectively with this stiff thing. It seems especially hard to go from side to side quickly. I've seen people mentioning taking the spring out. Did you take yours out? Also, how would I get the throttle thing to work, it doesn't for me, and I can't just push a button to bind it to something in the options. Oh, and does taking the spring out bring problems of it's own, I'm assuming it makes the joystick loose, but would it be too loose to sit on centre for instance? And if the recommendation is to remove the spring, I would welcome advice from anyone who has taken it out. Any help would be welcome please.

There's a throttle axis bind setting somewhere in the config mappings, though I'm currently in the middle of a couple processor-heavy things and can't dig through to exactly where, I'm afraid. I seem to recall it being fairly close to where I set rot-x to roll.

I never removed my spring - I like a little stiffness to my controls, but if (since) you don't I'd strongly suggest upping the x-sensitivity before going to hardware modifications. That, and go just practice maneuvering in a random tutorial mission - the difference between the arrow keys and a stick is pretty big, and takes getting used to.

I can't find the throttle bind. Would you be able to help me with that (or anyone else) when you are free? There's no rush, I don't know where you are, but it's midnight for me at the moment, so you can take all the time you want on that.

Sensitivity was already at maximum. However, I removed the deadzone entirely, and that seems to make life a lot easier. Without that in the middle it's practically eliminated that particular problem. I can make much finer adjustments now. I'm not sure, but I also don't think I need to drag the stick as far for maximum turning speed. I'll give getting used to the stiffness a shot. I was pathetic using the four arrows to begin with, it was only being starved of my favourite genre so long which made me persist with that. It reminds me of the rare occassions when I got hold of some stick on an arcade machine now. Much more workable.

I'm sure removal of the spring would void my warranty, so don't want to do that just yet. Besides, I'm much more confident of having some success now I changed the deadzone setting.

Oh, would you mind telling me what buttons you have set to what? It would be nice to have something as a basis to start off with.

[KyadCK]

Well LordMelvin, I have the joystick, but I have problems. You or anyone else can answer. I don't know how anyone can play anything approaching effectively with this stiff thing. It seems especially hard to go from side to side quickly. I've seen people mentioning taking the spring out. Did you take yours out? Also, how would I get the throttle thing to work, it doesn't for me, and I can't just push a button to bind it to something in the options. Oh, and does taking the spring out bring problems of it's own, I'm assuming it makes the joystick loose, but would it be too loose to sit on centre for instance? And if the recommendation is to remove the spring, I would welcome advice from anyone who has taken it out. Any help would be welcome please.

There's a throttle axis bind setting somewhere in the config mappings, though I'm currently in the middle of a couple processor-heavy things and can't dig through to exactly where, I'm afraid. I seem to recall it being fairly close to where I set rot-x to roll.

I never removed my spring - I like a little stiffness to my controls, but if (since) you don't I'd strongly suggest upping the x-sensitivity before going to hardware modifications. That, and go just practice maneuvering in a random tutorial mission - the difference between the arrow keys and a stick is pretty big, and takes getting used to.

I can't find the throttle bind. Would you be able to help me with that (or anyone else) when you are free? There's no rush, I don't know where you are, but it's midnight for me at the moment, so you can take all the time you want on that.

Sensitivity was already at maximum. However, I removed the deadzone entirely, and that seems to make life a lot easier. Without that in the middle it's practically eliminated that particular problem. I can make much finer adjustments now. I'm not sure, but I also don't think I need to drag the stick as far for maximum turning speed. I'll give getting used to the stiffness a shot. I was pathetic using the four arrows to begin with, it was only being starved of my favourite genre so long which made me persist with that. It reminds me of the rare occassions when I got hold of some stick on an arcade machine now. Much more workable.

I'm sure removal of the spring would void my warranty, so don't want to do that just yet. Besides, I'm much more confident of having some success now I changed the deadzone setting.

Throttle bind is on the same page as the rest of the ship movement controls at the very bottom, the one you want is 'absolute throttle' (the speed will match the exact position of the throttle). The spring is the only thing holding the joystick center (besides your hand). If you remove it, it'll lean forward.

If you need ideas for bindings, heres mine. I'm sure others will share theirs even without your asking too. 

I find it works well having all wep and the most commonly used targeting controls on one hand, it leaves you much less crippled if you do have to search for keys. Spend the time to mess with the controls, find something that feels natural because obviously in a fight you arent going to have time to spend looking.

Sensitivity: one down from max
Deadzone: one up from min

[Lorric]

Throttle bind is on the same page as the rest of the ship movement controls at the very bottom, the one you want is 'absolute throttle' (the speed will match the exact position of the throttle). The spring is the only thing holding the joystick center (besides your hand). If you remove it, it'll lean forward.

If you need ideas for bindings, heres mine. I'm sure others will share theirs even without your asking too. 

I find it works well having all wep and the most commonly used targeting controls on one hand, it leaves you much less crippled if you do have to search for keys. Spend the time to mess with the controls, find something that feels natural because obviously in a fight you arent going to have time to spend looking.

Sensitivity: one down from max
Deadzone: one up from min

I found it. Thanks. One pilot profile down, 19 to go

That's a nice graphic. And yes, it would be nice if other people posted their settings, and why they chose them. It's too late at night now for me to seriously jump into trying to get a setup that I like, but it looks like everything's in place to do so now.

That throttle control will be most useful, as my current campaign is at a stage where we haven't discovered how to target Shivan ships yet, so no M button for me.

[bmwbmc]

I went through all of this myself last year when i decided to get a joystick.
Years ago when i first played Freespace i did it using only the keyboard and i remember being good enough at it. But after so many years, wanting to get back to Freespace, i found the keyboard very awkward. I could have given it a bit more time to get back into shape but the keyboard i have now has a different arrangement and lots more buttons on it and i don't like it. So i found Thrustmaster's "T.Flight Hotas X" in Argos(Ireland) for 36 euro and i went for it as that was about all i could spend on a stick at the time. It has a big throttle stick as well(removable) and 12 mapping buttons (+4 with the hat-left, right, up, down). It's a lot of fun to play with it but, yes, there is a big BUT....i bumped into accuracy problems. Self centering spring makes it very hard to move the crosshair with surgical precision, which so many times costed me bonus objectives in Freespace 
I tried and took it off, following QuantumDelta's suggestion and while it makes it a lot better, it has a big drawback - i end up with a loose stick that's constantly leaning forward, causing my ship to pitch endlessly, making straight flying practically impossible.
 So i put the spring back in, i adjusted the resistance to minimum, deadzone form the game menu to min and sensitivity to max and just tried to get used to it. I just finished playing Freespace2 minutes ago and having played Fs1, Silent Threat, Silent Threat Reborn(amazing!!!) and Fs2 on both easy and medium i still grab the mouse sometimes if i need surgical precision targeting.
Overall though it is a lot of fun playing with a joystick and if i had spent a considerable amount of money on my joystick i would have not accepted that lack of precision, but for 36 euro i can live with it. I know it's never gonna be as exact as the keyboard which you still need anyway for comm and other stuff like energy management, etc...
I hope you enjoy your new stick and let us know how you get on with it after you find your ideal mapping setup and get used to it.

[Lorric]

I went through all of this myself last year when i decided to get a joystick.
Years ago when i first played Freespace i did it using only the keyboard and i remember being good enough at it. But after so many years, wanting to get back to Freespace, i found the keyboard very awkward. I could have given it a bit more time to get back into shape but the keyboard i have now has a different arrangement and lots more buttons on it and i don't like it. So i found Thrustmaster's "T.Flight Hotas X" in Argos(Ireland) for 36 euro and i went for it as that was about all i could spend on a stick at the time. It has a big throttle stick as well(removable) and 12 mapping buttons (+4 with the hat-left, right, up, down). It's a lot of fun to play with it but, yes, there is a big BUT....i bumped into accuracy problems. Self centering spring makes it very hard to move the crosshair with surgical precision, which so many times costed me bonus objectives in Freespace 
I tried and took it off, following QuantumDelta's suggestion and while it makes it a lot better, it has a big drawback - i end up with a loose stick that's constantly leaning forward, causing my ship to pitch endlessly, making straight flying practically impossible.
 So i put the spring back in, i adjusted the resistance to minimum, deadzone form the game menu to min and sensitivity to max and just tried to get used to it. I just finished playing Freespace2 minutes ago and having played Fs1, Silent Threat, Silent Threat Reborn(amazing!!!) and Fs2 on both easy and medium i still grab the mouse sometimes if i need surgical precision targeting.
Overall though it is a lot of fun playing with a joystick and if i had spent a considerable amount of money on my joystick i would have not accepted that lack of precision, but for 36 euro i can live with it. I know it's never gonna be as exact as the keyboard which you still need anyway for comm and other stuff like energy management, etc...
I hope you enjoy your new stick and let us know how you get on with it after you find your ideal mapping setup and get used to it.

Oh, hello. Thanks for the post. My hand has got worse, so I haven't been able to try yet, but I will post back here if/when my hand heals and I try properly with the stick.

[Lorric]

Lorric is still off the active flight roster...

Keyboard only players please be careful. I've been an avid gamer all my life since the age of 4 and have never even had the slightest issue until now, and I am 28. Perhaps you'll get away with it if you don't play too often, but otherwise, I'd consider making a change. I didn't even get a month into my Freespace playing.

[LordMelvin]

RSIs are serious business. I hope you're seeking appropriate medical assistance.