Author Topic: Here's a dumb question..  (Read 2375 times)

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Offline est1895

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Here's a dumb question..
Do you need a 3D Monitor to watch 3d videos?  If not, then I would need the 3D glasses then?  :lol:

 

Offline The E

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
Unless you are using the kind of 3D that involves red-and-green glasses, you do need a special monitor, and for some setups, special polarizing glasses.
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
you can theoretically use the cross-eye method.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
you can theoretically use the cross-eye method.
Yeah, if you want to give yourself a massive headache for the rest of the day.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
they are going about stereoscopy in the wrong damn way. yea a movie at 30fps per eye could theoretically be displayed on a 60fps monitor. but they probibly have a 120 hz solution out there just so they can make more money on equipment sales and your head will thank you. i play ksp at 40fps per eye on my stereo setup upstairs (ancinet crt, ancient shutter glasses, some hardware hacks), and its not bad so long as its calibrated correctly. dual 30 is ok so long as your game session is < 1 hour, i can get 120hz on some resolutions, but they are oddball resolutions that most games dont support.

120hz for games is ****ing stupid. reason being that the days of 60hz gameplay are over. carmack said his next game would be 30fps. crysis is another example of a game that likes to run at 30fps. you would need to seriously rape quality to get that up to 120hz. old games would run just fine. kind of persistent rand i have on the issue. whats needed is better autosterescopic displays, and stereo hmds. 120 hz is really a bad idea.
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Offline Davros

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
"carmack said his next game would be 30fps"
Thats on the console

"you would need to seriously rape quality to get that up to 120hz"
Refresh rate is not the same as frames per second, just because your monitor runs at 120hz does not mean your frame rate has to be 120fps

"120 hz is really a bad idea"
what refresh rate do you suggest? 240hz ???
60hz was abandoned because some people complained about the flicker giving them eyestrain and headaches
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 01:17:13 am by Davros »

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
i fail to see how increasing refresh rates is a bad thing.  or framerates.  true, crysis looked better than games before it would have at 30 fps.  but have you played it at 60 fps?  it's like night and day, the motion is so fluid and smooth.  it was like when i bumped my CRT refresh rate from 60 to 85.  60 never bothered me, but i didn't know what i was missing.  dropping back to 60 was instantly noticeable and drove me nuts with the flicker i could now see.
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
Thats on the console

if i could find the quote id site it, unfortunately my google fu is not strong.

Quote
Refresh rate is not the same as frames per second, just because your monitor runs at 120hz does not mean your frame rate has to be 120fps

let me put it another way. you have a next gen game engine that needs a lot of draw time. crysis was definately an example of such a game. you need to draw a frame from the perspective of each eye for each slice of gametime, your 30 fps is now 15 fps. your 120hz monitor now shows the same frames 4 times per eye. so you have a game that have lost all its fluidity of motion. why everyone decided to go with shutter glasses is beyond me.

Quote
what refresh rate do you suggest? 240hz ???
60hz was abandoned because some people complained about the flicker giving them eyestrain and headaches

my problem with 120 hz is that it is impossible to fill that with content unless you seriously compromise your detail or resolution settings. you are essentially filling in the extra refresh cycles with duplicate frames. for 3d there are superior technologies out there.

i fail to see how increasing refresh rates is a bad thing.  or framerates.  true, crysis looked better than games before it would have at 30 fps.  but have you played it at 60 fps?  it's like night and day, the motion is so fluid and smooth.  it was like when i bumped my CRT refresh rate from 60 to 85.  60 never bothered me, but i didn't know what i was missing.  dropping back to 60 was instantly noticeable and drove me nuts with the flicker i could now see.

not a bad idea at all until you start doing stereo. what ever framerate you can squeeze out of your hardware, doing stereo will half it. crysis when it was new, was a 30 fps game, even on state of the art hardware. nowadays you can make it run 60, but thats not the point. to make stereo fluid enough to play you need 30fps per eye, minimum (on a 120 hz display thats using each frame twice). if 60fps becomes an unobtainable goal for games to aim for, and 30fps becomes the target, then your stuck with 15 fps per eye, and thats unplayable. my problem is more with the shutter glasses and less with the display itself. they should be working on better hmds, and glasses-free display technologies, and display technologies with passive glasses.
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Offline Davros

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
thats crysis, there are other games
your cherry picking choosing one of the most demanding games available and saying because the framerate isnt high enough in this game 3d is a total failure
modern warefare 3 gets 83fps on a 560ti so in that game 3d is perfectly doable, and is on a huge number of games

and your suggestion the solution to 120hz's problems is better displays or hmds isnt valid the workload on the gpu is the same in 1 display at 120hz as it is on 2 displays at 60hz each (although there would be no flicker on a hmd)

"then your stuck with 15 fps per eye, and thats unplayable."
Its not your brain combines the image from each eye into a single image so you get 30fps (if you believe 30fps is playable then so is 15fps per eye)

I had the choice of 3d or going eyefinity, I went eyefinity and I think I made the right choice
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 05:55:17 am by Davros »

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
i just want to see something more advanced than what we had back in the crt days. frankly its just a lame rehash. add on top of that the limited support for 3d technologies (and lack of openness) in video drivers from major manufacturers is somewhat disturbing. there is still no solution for 3d under opengl (unless you shell out for a quadro card, not sure what ati is providing right now). nividia has all but locked 3d down to their own 3d vision product line (though does provide anaglyph). 3rd party solutions (like the iz3d driver) just use driver hacks to achieve 3d, and dont work on all games.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
From what I can tell, it seems like TV manufacturers at least are trying to move away from shutter glasses as fast as possible, most likely because no one wants to buy a TV that requires an expensive accessory for every person who watches it.  I know some company has been advertising a model that uses circular polarization, the same as any 3D movie in theaters, so you can use those same cheap glasses if you want.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
im all for the passive glasses systems. dual projector and polarized glasses is probably the most awesome way to go. it would probably be easy to pull off in a rear projection tv with the right kind of optics. a single projector with a frame synchronized rotating polarization filter would work too. some kind of electronically switchable polarization layer for lcds and oled desplays would be something to look into.

one thing i read about was using 6 different wavelengths of light, 2 of each rgb, where each eye filtered out one set of frequencies or the other (effective for led based displays or any displays where the light frequency can be controlled very precisely). this could either be done through eye flipping with a frequency band offset at 2x refresh or a 6-element pixel with rl, rr, rl, gr, bl, br subpixels at 1x refresh. either way you have a display that can be used with or without glasses to display 2d/3d content.
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Offline Davros

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
stereo  3d is built into dx 11.1

 

Offline FlamingCobra

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
Related dumb question: Any chance we'll be playing video games on holographic projectors sometime soon?

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
there are some laser based technologies that show promise.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
are you thinking of the spinning mirror thing?  because while neat and impressive, that contraption is rediculously impractical.
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
there was one on hackaday awhile back. let me see if i can find it.

heres one:
http://hackaday.com/2011/11/20/a-real-laser-based-3d-display/
heres another one that uses projectors:
http://hackaday.com/2011/01/18/glimpses-of-a-3d-volumetric-display/
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Offline FlamingCobra

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Re: Here's a dumb question..
I just realized.... that would never work. Playing a video game would be horrible on a holographic projector.