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Author Topic: Vector Thrust  (Read 3982 times)

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Offline RVR72G

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Vector Thrust
on: January 21, 2012, 04:59:10 am
 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #1 on: January 21, 2012, 05:31:01 am
I'm aware this is AC-esque, but that flat yawing with no bank in the very beginning of the first video is disgusting. :D
 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #2 on: January 21, 2012, 05:50:32 am
Mhh for some reason this looks worse than "Hawx" to me....  and I hated Hawx :(
 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #3 on: January 21, 2012, 06:04:49 pm
Quote from: Dilmah G on January 21, 2012, 05:31:01 am
I'm aware this is AC-esque, but that flat yawing with no bank in the very beginning of the first video is disgusting. :D

I was just about to comment on that, so instead, let me second your disgust. Is it so hard to make an arcade game that at least captures the feel of flight? I mean, most of the fighters will be FBW anyway, so you can let the player fly the plane like he doesn't care, and the plane will still handle responsibly... Heck, even Ace Combat had a sort-of-believeable feel to it. That said, HAWX had none whatsoever.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

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"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


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Everyone else takes normal damage."

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"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #4 on: January 22, 2012, 06:20:28 pm
Quote from: Dilmah G on January 21, 2012, 05:31:01 am
I'm aware this is AC-esque, but that flat yawing with no bank in the very beginning of the first video is disgusting. :D

You can flat-turn at certain speeds, but it's not smart.
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Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #5 on: January 22, 2012, 06:45:28 pm
What speeds are that? In almost all aircraft designs there is always yaw/roll coupling due to wing dihedral or anhedral; that, and I'm pretty sure it's physically impossible to induce a yawing moment on an aircraft that is above or below it's thrust line and not have some sort of roll coupling; think about it - you're putting an asymmetrical sideways  force above the aircraft's center of gravity when viewed from the front or rear.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 06:52:50 pm by Unknown Target »
 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #6 on: January 23, 2012, 07:52:30 am
I believe that the rolling is present but can be countered with opposite stick. Now that I've been reminded, I believe a Kiwi Air Force pilot by the name of Squadron Leader Nick Cree was killed a year or two ago performing a maneuver called the 'Fishtail Pass', in which the aircraft basically performs a series of flat yaws in which the rolling is countered by opposite stick and yaw controlled to remain within the envelope of controlled flight.
 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #7 on: January 23, 2012, 04:52:01 pm
Well, the problem wih flat turing up in the video is that there are NO control surface deflections to indicate that the airplae should be maintaining a level yaw...

...It's bad physics, and thus why we are le cranky.

:p
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage."

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."

-Nuke
 

Offline The E

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #8 on: January 23, 2012, 06:22:19 pm
Because getting all nerdrage about some pre-alpha footage is such an endearing move.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
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There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #9 on: January 23, 2012, 07:11:54 pm
Oh, this is pre-alpha?
 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 07:48:29 pm
Alpha at best, most likely pre-alpha. Anyway, it might end up quite interesting. If they implement better physics and cockpit view, and if it's as moddable as it claims to be, I guess somebody will make a realism mod for it.
 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 07:48:50 pm
Quote from: The E on January 23, 2012, 06:22:19 pm
Because getting all nerdrage about some pre-alpha footage is such an endearing move.

Well, when you're talking to at least two flight sim fans such as Dilmah and myself, yes, it is. I've seen and toyed with so many over-simplified arcade games such as these... that just had such markedly bad physics, and they were played off as good? (Looking at YOU, HAWX!) It's just one of those things that... just doesn't need to be. I think it's possible to make a realistic sim with simplified input (not necessarily quite the case here), and I think it's more than possible to make an arcade game that's immersive because even if it's not realistic, it feels real. Flying helicopters in ARMA is kind of an example of the latter, because the sense of speed and motion let you look past the over-simplified flight mechanics.

The yaw-thing is an immersion-breaker to anyone who might be a realistic or semi-realistic flight simmer. To arcade fans, this might not be an issue. We're making an issue, however, because it profoundly offends us.

:p
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage."

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."

-Nuke
 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 08:13:11 pm
Well, you can mod flat yawing out of FS if you want to (though this has it's own set of problems, most notably AI), and this game claims to be highly moddable. If modding it would be as simple as for FSO (and if the game itself would be any good, of course), then I might consider getting it.
 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 08:33:12 pm
Do not forget that FSO is set in space... There's a difference.

The rudder in the F-16 is above the fighter's center of gravity, so if it moves while no other control surface of the fighter moves, it will induce a rolling action due to a new torque being induced to the left or right on the fighter. I see that I'm starting to sound overly critical and anal about this matter, so I'll let it rest. However, to those who shared in the initial moment of disgust... yeah, enough said on that matter.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage."

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."

-Nuke
 

Offline Dilmah G

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #14 on: January 23, 2012, 08:48:18 pm
Yes, I believe we've made our point. Hopefully as this develops, they'll iron it out. The rage was inevitable, however. :P
 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 01:50:41 am
Someone should've sent them a complaint. The uploader/developer seems to read their YouTube comments.

EDIT:
Quote from: A commenter
I have an issue with this video, and I hope that you'll address it soon so that this can be a much better product. At the beginning of the video, the player was flat yawing with no bank and it looked terrible...

Quote from: A developer
I understand what you mean. That and other details on the flight dynamics will be improved in future versions.

Should I be bumping this instead?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 09:44:20 am by SypheDMar »
 

Offline RVR72G

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #16 on: June 21, 2012, 02:48:34 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2hr1lU3-5s&feature=player_embedded

Now, say again if this is worse than HAWX (although IMHO the graphics still somehow slightly below my expectation, but that's just me. The shader should be modifiable, even for separate campaign).

BTW, the release's 27.
 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #17 on: June 21, 2012, 08:45:05 am
Still looking really game-y. And doesn't seem to have a virtual cockpit, which I consider a vital part for any flying game. Flying in 3rd person kills all immersion for me, and a HUD-only view is only slightly better.
 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #18 on: June 21, 2012, 10:28:58 am
It definately looks a lot better. This is an arcade game/arcade simulator, so I understand the drive not to make it into a true flight sim. It looks at least up to par with FreeSpace in handling an aircraft, though it still could be a lot better.

:yes:
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage."

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."

-Nuke
 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Vector Thrust
Reply #19 on: June 21, 2012, 01:06:20 pm
Quote from: Dragon on June 21, 2012, 08:45:05 am
Still looking really game-y. And doesn't seem to have a virtual cockpit, which I consider a vital part for any flying game. Flying in 3rd person kills all immersion for me, and a HUD-only view is only slightly better.
Look in their site. They have in-cockpit images.
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