[Mikes]

Is this really any different?

This is a stupid statement and you should be flogged for it. [... snip...]

You know... that's such a typical response for someone on honeymoon with "their new MMO"

I'll be most eager to hear what you say, once you are done with the game.

[Retsof]

So has someone made an HLP team yet? ("note that I am noobtastic and don't know how to join anyway  )

[SypheDMar]

Is this really any different?

This is a stupid statement and you should be flogged for it. [... snip...]

You know... that's such a typical response for someone on honeymoon with "their new MMO"

I'll be most eager to hear what you say, once you are done with the game.

Can't we say that about any game? This elitist attitude is annoying.

[Liberator]

Indeed, it's what it is, leave it at that and leave the elitist bull**** at the door.

[Mikes]

Indeed, it's what it is, leave it at that and leave the elitist bull**** at the door.

You are mistaking "jaded about companies that make inherently exploitive games" as being elitist?
The typical MMO uses a somewhat entertaining early game to establish a behavior/reward pattern that is later exploited get away with more and more repetition/grind the further you go in the game.

The question whether this is "any different" was asked in all seriousness.
The MMO market is rather stale these days... and developers deviating from the norm are a rare rare breed.

Can't we say that about any game?

Not at all, as most "games" in general are designed to entertain, while most "MMOs" are designed to exploit it's players.
In the most simple terms you have games that compete with "fun" gameplay and content... and you have games that compete with "compulsion".
With very very few exceptions... MMO's always use operant conditioning to induce behavior patterns that drastically increase playtime, while the quality and variety of the offered gameplay and content takes more and more of a nosedive the longer you play.

You will find that the methods used in typical MMO are quite controversial in game designer circles, so I am far from alone with that assessment.

Oh and... for me, it's not really about the monetary cost ... but rather about the opportunity cost of all that freetime spent on mundane repetition when you play those games.
I'm missing out on way too many actual good games, books and movies as it is... so my patience with games that use grind/repetition of simplistic tasks for content gating to artificially increase playtime is rather low

[Liberator]

Oooohhhhhkay...then we won't go into the exploitiveness of how most of the giant games from the last 5 years or so are as shallow and vapid as the sterotypical valley girl and who's sole purpose has been to look pretty on a TV spot and in a magazine and then have an average lifespan about 10 days.  Seriously, I used to play WoW with this guy who was waiting for Modern Warfare 3 to come to the point that he would go on and on about it in vent, then he got it, said how awesome it was, disappeared for about 10 days and then was back on WoW at odd times because he was finished with MW3 and had blown his sleep schedule playing it so much.

MMOs, I'm speaking broadly about Western style ones here not those ridiculous Korean grindfests, are generally as much about being social as they are doing the quests and killing bosses.  You generally get back what you put into them.

As we've said, this game does just about everything it can to make the player feel like a Starfleet Captain in the vein of Kirk and the style of Picard, Sisko and Janeway.  It does this and then attempts to also create a community around the activities that the players partake in.  Does it do this well?  YMMV.  Much like a lot of large scale MMOs, their reach exceeded their grasp a bit.  The Klingon side, from what I'm told, is generally incomplete and not very fulfilling.  But then I don't play it to be a Klingon Captain.  And I suspect most other people don't either.

All that said, some of the best missions I've played are from the Foundry.  Most have been suitably "trek"y without being overly trekkie.

It's not a perfect game, but it's a lot better than the 2 year old reviews give it credit for, since they are, you know, 2 years old.

[NGTM-1R]

You know... that's such a typical response for someone on honeymoon with "their new MMO"

Then you'll be happy to know I gave you the opinion of somebody who's been playing for about a month (they had a ten-day invite just before F2P went live) and has long since exhausted all the Cryptic-made content.

Now take your smug attitude and get that ****ing flogged too. You assume I'm an easily lead fool and expect me to take you seriously? (Christ man, you have no conception of my posting history on the subject of gaming.)

[SpardaSon21]

If anyone wants to hook up with me in this I'm SpardaSon21@SpardaSon22.  Original, I know.

[NGTM-1R]

And it occurs to me that Mikes is actually incapable of reading a whole post, since I actually outlined what content is available free (all gameplay) and what is not (pretty much cosmetic, so I suppose he's just dead-set on having his DS9 uniform...which has recently become available for grindy money as opposed to real money, but I digress).

The whole "honeymoon" argument is stupid. This is F2P. They can only exploit you with your consent. If you really think of yourself as so weak-willed that you can be tricked into spending money by Cryptic, I'd say you have whole slew of other problems. I haven't spent a cent on this game. The only person I know who has has been in there for a long time and was satisified with their purchase.

[LunarNightmare]

I actually just started to play this a week ago, i'll give my name out once I replace it with something that I didn't rip borrow from a campaign. 

Edit: I'd also like to point out that I hate that character anyway.

[Mikes]

And it occurs to me that Mikes is actually incapable of reading a whole post, since I actually outlined what content is available free (all gameplay) and what is not (pretty much cosmetic, so I suppose he's just dead-set on having his DS9 uniform...which has recently become available for grindy money as opposed to real money, but I digress).

The whole "honeymoon" argument is stupid. This is F2P. They can only exploit you with your consent. If you really think of yourself as so weak-willed that you can be tricked into spending money by Cryptic, I'd say you have whole slew of other problems. I haven't spent a cent on this game. The only person I know who has has been in there for a long time and was satisified with their purchase.

As said above, for me it's not about the money. It's about quality and variety of gameplay and content.

It's a fact that pretty much all MMO's make liberal use of grind/grind based content gating/operant conditioning in order to artificially extend the lifespan of their content.
(Doesn't matter whether it's free to play or pay to play...  the point is that grindy content is cheap to develop and keeps players busy.)

The only Cryptic game I do have personal experience with is City of Heroes and while that had several nifty ideas it was also chock full of grind and quite blatant repetition... so there's that.
I think what I originally asked, quite directly, is whether this is any different.

Sadly... you gave me a typical MMO fanboy answer that didn't really tell me anything.

And to clear up any further misunderstandings and false assumptions right here:
Yes I do know your posting history and while I may not always agree with the views your hold I frankly do regard you as a man of intelligence who knows how to make a solid argument.

So well... is it, any different? LOL.




P.S.: Even the smartest men have been known to take the traditional MMO scam hook line and sinker... and to take quite a while/years to really figure it out. That can't be used as an argument.

P.P.S.: 1 month is hardly what would be considered a "long playtime" in MMO circles...    and what would be considered the "honeymoon phase" where people are all enthusiastic about their new MMO is hardly ever over in a single month if the game appeals to them at all. What you have to be aware of is that this is the phase where a typical MMO showers you with rewards and things to do left and right...  it's how it gets it's hooks into you... only to later capitalize on your attachment to the character/ship you have spent so much effort to build up/acquire. Naturally a lot of people keep going, reluctant to let "all that work and effort go to waste"... while content and gameplay becomes ever more grindy. Worst case you get people who religiously repeat their "daily repeatable quests" for months on end, ever chasing that next "reward, until the accumulative effort spent on the game becomes so much that letting go suddenly appears to them as an impossibility. Operant conditioning is a *****.

P.P.P.S.: So I don't just talk about negative examples: The one MMO style game that I did respect was Guildwars 1, to my knowledge, so far the only game in that genre that allowed you to enjoy 100% of it's content without ever *having* to spend a single minute on grind or repetition. The main premise of that game was that "player Skill should trump time spent playing - always" and I would love to see more MMO style games based on that premise...  if STO was like this, I'd download it in a heartbeat...  but unless you tell me differently, I'll assume it's just another crappy MMO that happily exploits it's players.

[Starman01]

Since it's F2P now, I will give this one a try too. Though i'm not really the multiplayer guy, let's see how far I can go alone.  See you in the galaxy, guys

[LunarNightmare]

My name is LunarNightmare@lunarnightmarexp (i'm so creative), anyway, i'll be lurking around the galaxy, catching a few torpedoes.

[Scourge of Ages]

The beauty of a F2P MMO is that since there's no monetary investment, when you get bored, you can just play something else without feeling bad. And then if you never go back to it, you still don't feel bad that you never finished it.

[NGTM-1R]

As said above, for me it's not about the money. It's about quality and variety of gameplay and content.

This was discussed. Also: you're complaining about timesinks later, so what the **** is your point? What are you afraid of in the timesinks? Do hobbies scare you or something?

It's a fact that pretty much all MMO's make liberal use of grind/grind based content gating/operant conditioning in order to artificially extend the lifespan of their content.
(Doesn't matter whether it's free to play or pay to play...  the point is that grindy content is cheap to develop and keeps players busy.)

Ah, I see. You're a moron.

It is not in the interest of a gaming company to offer free content that is grindy on an MMO, because then you are using up their server cycles and their money and they get nothing.

More to the point, the only really grindy content in this game I've encountered you have to force on yourself, with either STFs, crafting, or too much exploration. None of these things need be touched. (And honestly the STFs are getting disturbingly ungrindlike with the influx of new and ****ty players who **** things up. Never boring with a team full of rainbowguns.)

The only Cryptic game I do have personal experience with is City of Heroes and while that had several nifty ideas it was also chock full of grind and quite blatant repetition... so there's that.
I think what I originally asked, quite directly, is whether this is any different.

No, you asked whether it was different from other MMOs, not whether it was different from any specific one. So yeah. It's plenty different. It's got a sadly WoW feel on the ground, but at least it looks nicer and the art department wasn't composed of morons who think fighting enemies you can only see the feet and shins of is cool. In space terms, there's nothing like it out there. It's very pretty, it's nicely polished, different ships handle differently and perform different roles, there are some dud abilities (Boarding Party comes to mind) but even then manage to look cool if nothing else.

Plus, you know, Star Trek.

Sadly... you gave me a typical MMO fanboy answer that didn't really tell me anything.

Bull****. I and Mefuste both gave you clear, concise descriptions of the gameplay (it's like Star Trek), you were simply unable or unwilling to make correct use of them.

P.S.: Even the smartest men have been known to take the traditional MMO scam hook line and sinker... and to take quite a while/years to really figure it out. That can't be used as an argument.

If you willingly spent the time and it didn't cost you money, you still have only yourself to blame. Unless hobbies scare you. c.f. my commentary on your first statement.

P.P.S.: 1 month is hardly what would be considered a "long playtime" in MMO circles...

Ah, I see. You're still a moron.

I, and they, were commentating on the Single-Player content available to you if you play. Because though it's an MMO, you can treat it as an SP game with ease. (Unlike, say, EVE.)

It's very, very easy to run out of SP content in a week. Caitlin actually did it. She still hasn't joined a guild and she's rather down on the STF experience, and PVP is actually pretty hard to come by apparently. So you see, in your rush to condemn the MMO aspect of it, you stuck your head up your ass and failed to realize that this a multi-faceted game with aspects that are not massive or multiplayer, and those are arguably the best parts.

Since you hate MMOs with an unreasoning, fierce passion, I guess one stole your girlfriend or something, I offered you a commentary on the game as a single-player experience. You simply weren't smart enough to see that.

P.P.P.S.: So I don't just talk about negative examples: The one MMO style game that I did respect was Guildwars 1, to my knowledge, so far the only game in that genre that allowed you to enjoy 100% of it's content without ever *having* to spend a single minute on grind or repetition. The main premise of that game was that "player Skill should trump time spent playing - always" and I would love to see more MMO style games based on that premise...  if STO was like this, I'd download it in a heartbeat...  but unless you tell me differently, I'll assume it's just another crappy MMO that happily exploits it's players.

Well, it is, and you can, but this reflects you using it as a single-player game and delibrately not participating in team-based aspects. I suspect your Guild Wars example does the same.

(And of course there's EVE where you can scam your way to infinite wealth without much effort, but hey, you've never played that either I bet.)

[Ravenholme]

Karissa@ravenholmecp if anyone wants to add me. Just bumming about the galaxy when I have time off from uni work and ****. So not terribly high level.

[Mikes]

NGTM-1R... I wish you the best of luck in the search of the many clues you appear to be missing when discussing this subject. I seriously do.

Maybe we can revisit this discussion in a more civil and productive manner... in a couple of years.

[BloodEagle]

How do you tell what your in-game mail address is?

::EDIT::

Nevermind, found it under one of the 'team' menus.  Because, you know, putting the character/user identification somewhere in the 'mail' or 'character' systems would make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Retsof]

Found the Shooter control setting.  Makes ground missions way better IMO.

[NGTM-1R]

Found the Shooter control setting.  Makes ground missions way better IMO.

I find the shooter controls terrible, but that's probably because I need to remap them and I'm lazy.