Author Topic: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.  (Read 8075 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Sean Penn?
Everyone's entitled to an opinion.

But his sounds very wrong to me. I might just be biased.
Discuss

Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Penn is an idiot, it's a very old, difficult situation that has led to hostilities in the past, and he's joyfully leaping in and stirring up the flames and making the matter far more volatile and actually making it harder for the Governments to even begin to approach the problem.

 

Offline samiam

  • 21
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Argentina isn't likely to do anything. But really, it's not worth provoking them over a rock with fish and sheep.

 

Offline headdie

  • i don't use punctuation lol
  • 212
  • Lawful Neutral with a Chaotic outook
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • Headdie on Deviant Art
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Argentina isn't likely to do anything. But really, it's not worth provoking them over a rock with fish and sheep.

and oil
Minister of Interstellar Affairs Sol Union - Retired
quote General Battuta - "FRED is canon!"
Contact me at [email protected]
My Release Thread, Old Release Thread, Celestial Objects Thread, My rubbish attempts at art

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Our subjects are there too :lol:
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Penn really is an idiot here. As far as I know, the people on the Falklands actually want to be part of the UK. Siding with Argentina over this just sounds like a whole bunch of "siding with the underdog because the UK are bad" kind of deal.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline headdie

  • i don't use punctuation lol
  • 212
  • Lawful Neutral with a Chaotic outook
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • Headdie on Deviant Art
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
I love how we are supposed to be colonialists and yet Argentina wanting to use force is nothing short of imperialistic
Minister of Interstellar Affairs Sol Union - Retired
quote General Battuta - "FRED is canon!"
Contact me at [email protected]
My Release Thread, Old Release Thread, Celestial Objects Thread, My rubbish attempts at art

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Best bit, for me, is them complaining about the 'militarization' of the Falklands since they started making noise over it.

Whatever could cause us to do that? It's not as if they invaded it and generated a war that left over 900 British, Argentinians and Falklanders dead last time this kicked off...

Oh wait....

Whilst I do actually feel that the sovereignty of the Falklands is a murky area that needs to be cleared up, surely Argentina understands that throwing insults and rattling sabres is not the way to get Britain to the table, especially considering the recent history of the Isles.

 

Offline samiam

  • 21
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
I don't think I can contribute constructively to the current discussion. I don't follow celebrity gossip other than knowing that Sean Penn is some actor guy. Maintaining deterrence is fine, but if Argentina does do something stupid to improve Kirchener (the Thyroid/Botox issues First Lady)'s election chances, it would be best for both parties for the UK to just withdraw and let them have their penis moment.

A more interesting discussion is what a war would look like if it actually happened. Thing is, the UK doesn't have an aircraft carrier anymore. Well, they have one, but it carries helicopters. At the same time, the Royal Navy has kept with technology while the Argentines basically have what the exact same equipment, just older. It would be interesting to see how things would go without the Brits having air support.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Astute hunter killer and Type 45 destroyers pams air defense system combined with the ews, aa systems and the high quality infantry give me little reason to worry.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Any such war would be a curbstomp, both in military and political terms.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline samiam

  • 21
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
The Brits would probably still win, but it would be tougher without any CAP. As it was they lost half their destroyers.

Decker, what is this pams air defense system you speak of?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 02:46:15 pm by samiam »

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Not that tough. It takes a lot to take down a modern Destroyer, and shooting down Exocets is not that hard for them either.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

  

Offline samiam

  • 21
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Modern warships are flimsy compared to ordinance. The Argentines would have done a lot more damage if their bomb fuses actually worked. Almost any modern naval combatant is likely to be pretty much screwed after 1-2 bomb or missile hits. Not necessarily sunk, but the first things to go will be fire control and radar, then internal fires which take out a good deal of the ship's innards. The Stark only survived in 1986 (?) because of a heroic effort on the part of its crew. No one was expecting it to. Any hit to a warship cruiser or below is really, really bad news nowadays given how dependent the modern warship is on electronic gadgets that are shredded after the first few chunks of shrapnel.

I hope you have CAP, Dekker, and I'm not talking about baldness caps.

edit: Four Typhoons is you CAP? FOUR?! Well, I guess given what they're up against...

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • Moderator
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker- you've probably heard me
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Belated-
:welcomered:

It was 82, and Argie bomb fuses are adequate. I'm in my head hoping their use doesn't escalate.
EOD is not fun when it's cold and wet.
Campaigns I've added my distinctiveness to-
- Blue Planet: Battle Captains
-Battle of Neptune
-Between the Ashes 2
-Blue planet: Age of Aquarius
-FOTG?
-Inferno R1
-Ribos: The aftermath / -Retreat from Deneb
-Sol: A History
-TBP EACW teaser
-Earth Brakiri war
-TBP Fortune Hunters (I think?)
-TBP Relic
-Trancsend (Possibly?)
-Uncharted Territory
-Vassagos Dirge
-War Machine
(Others lost to the mists of time and no discernible audit trail)

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller.

Secret bomb God.
That one time I got permabanned and got to read who was being bitxhy about me :p....
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Thing is, in modern political thinking, there's no real way that Argentina could justify any pre-emptive action against the Falklands, because, no matter what Sean Penn says, that would be a blatant act of colonialism. It would probably go like 1982, it'd take a few weeks for the UK to get into position, but when they are in position, they would simply roll over any occupying forces.

The Ark Royal has not been sold or scrapped yet to my knowledge, and, if needed, I'm pretty sure it could be pulled out of Mothball quite quickly, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that very option isn't being quietly considered right now, but, as Dekker says, hopefully it won't come to that.

 

Offline Rodo

  • Custom tittle
  • 212
  • stargazer
    • Steam
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Sean Penn should not have said what he said, there's a lot of people watching and everything that hits the public media will echo for a long time, long enough to make some start caring about this issue.

For me this is just a charade formulated to make ppl gaze away from real internal problems in Argentina.

There is however, a valid concern from the general population (ever since we lost the war) about what's to happen with the islands, and this will have to be answered somewhere down the line. UK ppl cannot expect Argentinians to forget about that happened a few years back, that's just an impossible hope and denying dialogue is a childish move coming from their representatives.

Currently tension is building up on both sides for nothing and this cannot be good since you're actually expected to take a side on a heated discussion right?.
Obviously south America will back the reclaim (aside from Chile) but they will go no further, while the rest of the world will play the "don't look at me, I'm freaking neutral" card.
Can't actually talk about countries backing up UK, but the ppl living on the islands have made their thoughts pretty clear, and just because of that I don't see any valid reason to let this go on.

I don't even want to start about the hole oil thing, or about that supposed "free fishing zone" that's killing all life on our coasts or any other crap that everyone round here is talking about, that's just looking for something to justify their opinions. I'm not informed about that so I can only guess at best.

For me the islands are a far away land, there's nothing to gain from them and I honestly give a **** who gets them at the end.
So for me this is a time where I just sit and watch our beloved representatives bang their heads really hard while accomplishing nothing at all.

Said that, why would English ppl care about this anyway?, I would be more concerned about how their representatives seem to be as stupid as ours.
el hombre vicio...

 

Offline samiam

  • 21
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
Thing is, in modern political thinking, there's no real way that Argentina could justify any pre-emptive action against the Falklands, because, no matter what Sean Penn says, that would be a blatant act of colonialism.

Oh my god. Never start a conversation between a Chilean and an Argentine about icebergs. You won't believe how possessive they can get about "our icebergs!"

Saying they can't justify invading the Falklands is like saying Ethiopia can't justify invading Eritrea. It has nothing to do with that. The Argentines clearly just want to show the world another Tsushima and impress everyone with how they're in the league of the old colonial powers.

Quote
It would probably go like 1982, it'd take a few weeks for the UK to get into position, but when they are in position, they would simply roll over any occupying forces.

I think there is enough uncertainty in the outcome to say there's a 5% chance that Argentina manages to damage the entire battlegroup to the point where England withdraws and doesn't think a second go is worth it. I don't think international opinion would be particularly on England's side, even; in 1982, there was a very good PR campaign against the UK (with a lot of celebrities involved) and basically no one cared.

Quote
The Ark Royal has not been sold or scrapped yet to my knowledge, and, if needed, I'm pretty sure it could be pulled out of Mothball quite quickly, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that very option isn't being quietly considered right now, but, as Dekker says, hopefully it won't come to that.

Yes, but that would take time to train up the pilots and so forth and it would just make the scenario I concocted even less fair.

Belated-
:welcomered:

It was 82, and Argie bomb fuses are adequate. I'm in my head hoping their use doesn't escalate.
EOD is not fun when it's cold and wet.

Ay, Gracias! That's probably the second time I've been beamed in five years. nvm

I'm talking about EOD on a ship, where they might not have pumped all the water out yet and the ground below you is heaving in the middle of a south Atlantic squall.

 

Offline Flipside

  • əp!sd!l£
  • 212
Re: Falklands, Sean Penn, and Argentina.
It's all down to posturing Rodo, had the two Governments started a quiet, civilized dialogue (something that was outwardly not on the Agenda, but there are ways) then the whole thing could be discussed, and, eventually, an agreement might have been reached. Instead, it boiled down to hurling insults from 200 years ago at the UK and calling in US actors to be their mouthpiece.

Personally, what I would have done is talked quietly to the US and said "Look, we want a dialog about the Malvina's, but the UK won't even consider it, if you can help us diplomatically then you might just get your foot in the door if any oil is found there". Sneaky, I know, but that's diplomacy for you. It lets the US play it's favourite role as 'World problem solver', it means the UK actually have to listen, and it means Argentina finally get their grievances heard for better or for worse.

@samiam, the thing is, the UK and Argentina have now both made this a matter of Pride, the political cost of backing down to the UK, particularly after some of the comments made about the UK in general over the past few weeks, would probably be considered worse than the financial cost of 'what it takes' to re-capture them if it happened.

That said, I don't think it would happen, Argentina was under a completely different, more militaristic Government back then, which was why the US backed the UK's right to the Falklands at the time.