[est1895]

Could you put all of BP1 into one file and BP2 into another file?  I went to Freespacemods and achtung is not sure if either have been updated to work with 3.6.14 RC4.  I assume that you are waiting until the Release Candidate is final. 

[KyadCK]

To put them all in one file is to both:

Make it harder to update (small table change, re-upload and re-download everything!)
Make it harder to replace parts that get corrupted (The model isnt working right, re-download everything!)

Or if both one file and many files are kept:

More to keep track of and make sure are updated. (2 sets of files)
More to upload (small table change, upload everything! and the core vp. if a model is updated, then everything + assets)
More storage space (amount of space to store BP doubles in requirements)

If it is in the thread and it says updated, then it has been updated. I have had no problems running with .14 RC4 and as i understand it there is an update i have yet to get. I will be glad to only download what I need.

[bigchunk1]

I feel you man. I used to dread downloading freespace mods in this format. I'm sure more people would play the mod if there was an easier way to download it, and I know the dev team would if it was reasonable to make such a download.

Has anyone tried to explain to someone how to download this mod who does NOT even have freespace2 installed and NO knowledge of FSO? It's a fair ammount of explaining and doing.

Once you get used to it though, the reasons kyad mention start making more sense.

[MatthTheGeek]

Wait what.

How is downloading a list of files any harder than downloading one.

Why do you have any amount of explaining to give when we have tons of perfectly-written tutorials all over the place.

What's the point of telling someone to download BP if they don't have FS2 installed.

What the hell is wrong with you people ?

[Aesaar]

Installing FS2 mods:

Download mod files.

Make new folder in FS2 directory. 

Extract everything to that folder.

Select mod folder in Launcher.

Run game.

That's complicated?  Installing mods in Skyrim is more complex than this is.  And I don't see how one .zip/.rar/whatever file would simplify it.

[Rodo]

Yo' yo guys, I don't think repeatedly asking "what's so hard about it?" will help the guy in any way, you are just scaring him away.

est1895, I think the single file uploaded to fsmods is not updated, to be sure I would recommend downloading all the updated vp files from the release threads.

Still you can wait for someone on the BP staff to answer you, they will probably know if there's a single file download available for you.

[SypheDMar]

I kinda understand what he might be going through (but it's still not that hard.) The newest updates for blue planet happened more than once in post, so it was a bit of a guess to check which files were most recent. I went had a problem because I System Restored my computer and forgot about it, but then reupdated the stuff, and it works fine now.

Still, there are many reasons why a one file download is not ideal. It has been tried historically, so some of the folks arguing against it aren't being elitists for no reason (not that they ever were, of course, maybe). If anyone remembers the 3.6.10 mediavps, there was a "Complete" .vp. It had lots of problems including all that Kyad mentioned and more (some model/vp viewers wouldn't work with files that are too large). In the end, they went back on it for the 3.6.10 patches and the 3.6.12 mediavps. I don't think expect that they would try it again soon.

[bigchunk1]

I don't want to get too much into this because we have had deadlocks about this issue before, but I'm just saying mod setup/installation is a fair amount of work. Sure, it's not too hard if the user installs everything correctly and gets everything right, but that's no 100% guarantee. How difficult/frustrating setup is depends on the user, and for some it's not worth it just to play a game.

I'm also not ragging on the devs for doing things this way, because I understand the reasons. I'm just empathysing with users who aren't as comfortable with modding, and recognising that there is a learning curve for those less inclined with how games handle file management. You could continue to make statements about how sub-human these users are, but really what else are you doing but picking fights?

What's the point of telling someone to download BP if they don't have FS2 installed.

I'm saying you tell them to download freespace2 and FSO in order to play Blue Planet. If they are into space sims they might want to play it.

[MatthTheGeek]

I sure see where you're coming from, but holding newbies' hand all the way through any more than we do now wouldn't do any good, both for them and for us. The problem with FSO and the whole Freespace community in general is that everything is constantly changing. New stuff comes out. Versions are updated. Fixes are released.

If a player wants to enjoy Freespace to its full potential, and it wouldn't be in any way interesting to not do so, people have to learn a minimum how stuff works. If that implies having a bit of trouble the first time and having to ask for help on the forum or on IRC, well that's an excellent thing, because the best way to enjoy Freespace to its full potential is to have a minimum of contact with the community too.

We don't want braindead players. We want active players. People that will play our stuff, people that will give us feedback, and eventually if they so desire, people that will create new stuff for the community. If people aren't motivated enough to follow a few simple instructions, they'll never have the motivation to participate in the community in any even minor way. So why should we care about them ?

[Rodo]

We?

Wonder what will happen with the flux of new people when diaspora and wcs release their work, just as Kara said earlier.

[QuakeIV]

"Lol not that hard"

Thats kinda what im getting from this.

I'd just like to point out that I'm pretty tech savvy and it was a ***** figuring out exactly what I was supposed to do.  The instructions were fragmented over like four threads and it wasn't clear which files were important to making the mod work.  The download thread kinda specified which were important but it was still difficult to tell.

On top of that I learned that I had to make my own mod folder and use that.  I had to download a bunch of different asset files, which were constantly corrupting since they would intermittently stall out when I tried to do them all at once. 

If there was one central .zip (or whatever) file that I 'extract into the freespace 2 folder' life would be much easier.  One central download that is much less likely to cock up, I don't have to make sure everything extracted to the right folder, and everything is downloaded in one go.  I could tell pretty easily from the launcher what I needed to do after all of the assets were downloaded.

Honestly you guys could just offer a big zip file, then a bunch of different downloads for all of the VP's.  You could then update a VP and people would still only have to download that one VP's zip file and the update process wouldn't be buggered.

Also to the guy that wants to make a single table change, thereby making everyone out of date easily, **** you.  If it sucks for you to upload 200 mb it sucks for a lot more people to download 200mb.  Just make centralized updates and "RE-UPLOAD EVERYTHING" as it was put. 

[MatthTheGeek]

...right, so you have trouble with your connec for DLing small files. Sounds like to me you'd have a fuc*ton more trouble DLing big files then.

What are we arguing for again ?

[LordPomposity]

I'd just like to point out that I'm pretty tech savvy

This statement contradicts everything else in your post.

and it was a ***** figuring out exactly what I was supposed to do.  The instructions were fragmented over like four threads and it wasn't clear which files were important to making the mod work.  The download thread kinda specified which were important but it was still difficult to tell.

This download thread? http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70745.0

Required downloads
Core: Freespacemods
Visuals 1: Freespacemods
Visuals 2: Freespacemods
Audio 1:  Freespacemods

Optional downloads
Advanced Visuals: Freespacemods

The ones marked as "required" are required. The one marked as "optional" is optional.

On top of that I learned that I had to make my own mod folder and use that.

Good! That's a useful thing to know around here.

I had to download a bunch of different asset files, which were constantly corrupting since they would intermittently stall out when I tried to do them all at once.

Issue: attempting to download the files in parallel does not work.
Solution: download them in series instead of in parallel.

Also, having your connection crap out in the middle of a 200Mb file is both less frustrating and less likely than having it crap out in the middle of the 2Gb file you're asking for.

If there was one central .zip (or whatever) file that I 'extract into the freespace 2 folder' life would be much easier.

naw

One central download that is much less likely to cock up,

Begging the question. One central download that is much less likely to cock up would be nice, but you assume the premise of it being less likely to cock up is true without evidence.

I don't have to make sure everything extracted to the right folder,

Yes, you still do. I'm pretty sure the single file would still need to go in C:\freespace2 instead of C:\data\special\superspecial\gigsandgigsofmexicandonkeyporn.

Also to the guy that wants to make a single table change, thereby making everyone out of date easily, **** you.

I'm sure your friendly attitude will increase the likelihood of people doing what you want them to.

If it sucks for you to upload 200 mb it sucks for a lot more people to download 200mb.

And that's the point.

[QuakeIV]

Considering one of your responses was even essentially 'lolno' I'm not going to bother replying.  Too lazy to defend my position today.

[LordPomposity]

Considering one of your responses was even essentially 'lolno' I'm not going to bother replying.  Too lazy to defend my position today.

Come on, you could at least tell me "**** you" like you did for the hypothetical guy with the audacity to patch BP's tables. Now I feel neglected.

[KyadCK]

Considering one of your responses was even essentially 'lolno' I'm not going to bother replying.  Too lazy to defend my position today.

The only problem with that being LordPomposity is 100% correct. I attribute it to having no position to defend.

Also to the guy that wants to make a single table change, thereby making everyone out of date easily, **** you.

Also, being on a modding team, I would kindly like to say **** you back. People as ungrateful as you for the work done to make the game smoother and better make me a bit sick.

Oh, and keep in mind these small patches the BP team did stopped the game from crashing. You know, so the mod you downloaded would actually work. If you can't download 200mb to make sure the mod works right then you shouldn't download the 1gb+ to play the mod at all. After all, it's too big of a hassle.

[Jeff Vader]

Hngh.

I'd just like to point out that I'm pretty tech savvy and it was a ***** figuring out exactly what I was supposed to do.  The instructions were fragmented over like four threads and it wasn't clear which files were important to making the mod work.  The download thread kinda specified which were important but it was still difficult to tell.

One thread for installing AoA, one thread for installing WiH, one thread for installing the MediaVPs. If you do not yet have FSO, then yes, one  thread for that as well. But having all of this in a single thread would be stupid. And each of those threads explains their own little world, and if you just follow the instructions, you end up with something that works.

On top of that I learned that I had to make my own mod folder and use that.

The last time I checked, the BP download archives already contained the "blueplanet" or "blueplanet2" directory, so no. YOU do not have to make your own folders. Or IF you do, creating a new folder is hardly an IT professional thing.

I had to download a bunch of different asset files, which were constantly corrupting since they would intermittently stall out when I tried to do them all at once.

This. If your connection cocks up with 200MB files, what exactly do you think will happen if you have to download 2GB files? Will it magically get faster and more reliable?

If there was one central .zip (or whatever) file that I 'extract into the freespace 2 folder' life would be much easier.

An installer that sniffed the location of your FS2 installation would be even easier.

One central download that is much less likely to cock up

No.

I don't have to make sure everything extracted to the right folder, and everything is downloaded in one go.

You just said you'd need to make sure you're extracting everything to your FS2 directory. And everything is again not downloaded in one go, if your internet connection dies already with smaller download sizes.

Honestly you guys could just offer a big zip file, then a bunch of different downloads for all of the VP's.  You could then update a VP and people would still only have to download that one VP's zip file and the update process wouldn't be buggered.

They tend to improve the infrastructure of the internet, but ALL THE BP PLAYERS suddenly downloading 2GB per person because of a relatively small yet most important update would make servers and ISP's cry. And the process would surely be buggered at least for people with poor connections and/or monthly download limits.

Also to the guy that wants to make a single table change, thereby making everyone out of date easily, **** you.  If it sucks for you to upload 200 mb it sucks for a lot more people to download 200mb.  Just make centralized updates and "RE-UPLOAD EVERYTHING" as it was put. 

I agree. Fixing bugs and making a product more stable sucks big time. Seriously though, please no ****-yous directed at other forum members.

Considering one of your responses was even essentially 'lolno' I'm not going to bother replying.  Too lazy to defend my position today.

Well, if you're going to post in a thread without reading other people's replies, don't expect anyone to pay attention to your posts in the future.

[General Battuta]

it would be great to have one-click installation and updating for bp

unfortunately we don't have the manpower to figure out an installer that would make that work

feel free to chip in if you have any crazy skills though

[Darius]

An up-to-date single-file download for WiH will be up on moddb soon. The mirror link will be added to the download thread when that happens.

Apologies that it's been a bit of a time coming, but when it does it'll be the best solution to the problem you're having.

[Crybertrance]

Also to the guy that wants to make a single table change, thereby making everyone out of date easily, **** you.   

WAIIIIIT a sec.... If someone makes a single table change, you wouldn't have to download a 200 MB (MegaByte) file BTW. AoA and WiH's Core files (that is where the table and non-asset related stuff goes.(for the tech savvy)). Is just, I dunno, ~500 KBs (KiloBytes, just in-case someone doesn't understand).

If it were one centralized download, you would have to download a 2 GB (GigaByte) file for just a few kb's of data. It fail to see how this would be economical and feasible in any way.

Please, If you need help, we are ready to help. But if you have maturity issues and are a complete ******** [To the mods: pardon me just this once]. We wont hold that against you.

Considering one of your responses was even essentially 'lolno' I'm not going to bother replying.  Too lazy to defend my position today.

You know sometimes I feel that some people around here just post for the sake of trolling and don't deserve anybodies attention. PERIOD