Author Topic: Delenda Est (spoiler!)  (Read 35326 times)

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Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I've been killed by my own slammers quite enough times, though maybe submunitions don't count.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Can you also check this vs. the old old model? How much Apocalypse self-damage does it deal?

With an pre-update version of blueplanet2 (d/l July 2011) & blueplanet (d/l April 2011) the Akula does approx 4k Apocalypse self-damage.  In this case, the majority of damage received is not in 500 hp "blocks", which could imply that it's mostly shockwave damage, somewhere between the inner & outer radius of the Apocalypse (i.e. 100-200 away).  If my understanding of the code is correct, it could also be damage that hits & destroys subsystems 1st, then carries over into the hull.

With both newer models, nearly all the damage is done in 500 hp blocks.  From checking the frame at which each bit of damage is being done it would appear that this is all shockwave damage (as suggestd by qwadtep), reason being that missiles that hit their target do their normal damage and their shockwave damage in the same frame, whereas all the damage in these cases is from different frames.

So in summary, the Akula Apocalypse self damage tally is:
Old Old model: ~4k - NOT in 500 hp blocks
Old model: ~28k - in 500 hp blocks (in my testing this one has always died prior to the SSM strike)
Latest model: ~10k - in 500 hp blocks

I guess that disabling turrets as suggested by qwadtep is a reasonable next step.  It's also be useful to know if the subsystem boxes changed at all between the different models.  Also, the old old models didn't have any LODs, would the different LODs affect the sizes / placement of subsystems? (I don't know enough about modeling...)

And for those interested, here's some extracts of the data from my fs2_open.logs (note the 4th field is the missile firer and the 5th field is the current frame):

Old Old Model
Code: [Select]
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,213
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1276
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,11.925433,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1791
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,41.464760,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1804
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,60.163673,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1893
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,98.429138,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1902
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,72.956680,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1980
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,194.390427,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2007
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,169.995316,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2013
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,257.443848,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2080
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2754
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,287.681305,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2821
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2892
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,273.680786,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2892
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2894
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,263.525421,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2950
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,97.142441,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3014
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,242.552902,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3085
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,175.388931,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3106
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,0.456339,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3188
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,104.748085,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3219
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,12.895197,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3220
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3646
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4865
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5172
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8512

Old Model
Code: [Select]
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,134
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,598
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,692
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,704
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,772
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,774
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,848
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,944
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1711
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1740
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1829
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1839
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1895
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1948
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2017
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2036
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2749
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2816
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2817
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2858
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2918
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2957
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2989
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3044
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3065
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3121
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3237
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3871
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3950
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3967
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4044
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4051
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4123
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4126
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4177
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4248
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4322
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4432
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4576
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4943
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5073
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5083
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5149
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5239
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5373
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5455
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5504
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5582
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5643
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5777
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6002
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6525
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6588
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6714
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6730
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6740
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6846
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6926

Latest Model
Code: [Select]
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,294
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2842
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3092
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4321
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6185
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6405
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7532
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7736
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7823
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7983
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8129
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8229
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8293
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8476
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8551
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8563
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8606
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8752
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8764
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8893
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9003
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9012
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9133
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9257
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9268
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9407
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9419
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9534
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9699
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9720

And just for a reference, here's the damage taken by the Regensburg from the Akula from the same test as the Old Old model.  You can see that the majority of the damage has 400 (impact reduced by armor) & 500 (shockwaves not affected by the armor) hp blocks done in the same frame. 
Code: [Select]
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,564
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,586
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,586
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,638
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,638
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,666
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,666
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,714
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,714
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,832
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,832
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1522
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1522
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1650
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1650
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1691
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1691
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1707
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1707
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1737
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1737
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1795
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1795
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1810
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1810
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1887
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1887
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1928
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1928
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1931
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1931
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2007
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2007
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2710
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2710
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,25.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2755
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2755
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2827
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2827
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2856
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2856
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,25.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2883
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2883
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2924
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2924
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,25.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3008
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3008
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3023
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3023
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3071
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3071
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3111
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3111
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3128
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3128
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3845
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3845
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3917
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3917
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3968
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3968
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4054
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4054
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4062
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4062
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4145
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4164
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4164
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4218
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4218
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4224
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4224
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4262
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4262
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4385
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4385
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4976
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4976
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5103
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5103
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5205
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5205
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5340
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5340
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5347
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5347
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5507
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5507
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5635
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5635
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6569
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6569
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6802
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6802
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6874
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6874
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7037
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7037
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11674
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11674
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11726
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11726
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11740
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11740
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11780
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11780
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11812
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11812
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11816
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11816
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11840
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11840
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11892
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11892
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11892
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11905
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11961
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11961
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11999
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11999

e: Yes, this is really getting towards tl;dr but I thought this was also very interesting.  With the Latest Model, the Akula is taking its 500 hp of damage in the same frame that the Regensburg is, e.g. see frame 9699, impact to Regensburg, shockwave to Akula & Regensburg.  Does this imply that the ships are very close, or are occupying the same space?

Code: [Select]
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,294
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,100.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,585
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,719
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,719
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,802
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,802
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1671
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1671
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1822
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1822
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1828
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1828
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1852
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1852
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1904
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1904
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1908
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1908
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1957
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1957
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1981
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,1981
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2007
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2007
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2039
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2039
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2071
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2071
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2125
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2125
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2842
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2906
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2906
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2988
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,2988
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3053
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3053
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3092
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3093
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3093
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3154
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3154
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3166
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3166
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3221
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3221
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3271
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3271
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3275
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3275
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3421
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,3421
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4095
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4095
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4180
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4180
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4291
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4291
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4312
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4312
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4321
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4358
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4358
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4399
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4399
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4462
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4462
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4510
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4510
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4589
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4589
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4627
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4627
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4717
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,4717
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5636
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5636
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5781
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5781
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5893
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5893
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5947
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,5947
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6185
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,6405
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7532
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7736
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7823
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7823
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7823
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7983
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7983
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,7983
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8129
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8129
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8229
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8229
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8229
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8293
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8293
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8476
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8476
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8476
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,75.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8551
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,66.651421,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8551
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8563
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8563
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8563
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8606
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8606
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8606
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8752
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8752
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8752
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8764
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8764
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8764
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8893
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8893
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,8893
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9003
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9003
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9003
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9012
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9012
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9012
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9133
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9133
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9133
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9257
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9257
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9257
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9268
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9268
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9407
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9407
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9407
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9419
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9419
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9419
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9534
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9534
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9534
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9699
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9699
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9699
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Akula,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9720
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,9720
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,400.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11498
Damage: A took B from C fired by D - Frame E:Regensburg,500.000000,Apocalypse#Karuna,Akula,11498
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 11:31:42 pm by niffiwan »
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I guess that disabling turrets as suggested by qwadtep is a reasonable next step.  It's also be useful to know if the subsystem boxes changed at all between the different models.  Also, the old old models didn't have any LODs, would the different LODs affect the sizes / placement of subsystems? (I don't know enough about modeling...)
There doesn't seem to be any problem with the turrets themselves. Rather, the shockwave effect seems much larger than it should be--somewhere between 750 and 1000m to fully attenuate. So when you these close-range engagements with Karunas, they end up caught in their own fire pocket. Naturally, if you have multiple Karunas saturating the area like in Delenda Est, it adds up really fast.

LODs don't affect subsystem geometry and collisions are still detected according to LOD0.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
The thing is, in all those tests, it's the same Apocalypse#Karuna used everywhere, right ? Only the Karuna model changes. There should be no reason the same weapon with the same shockwave at the same distance deals more damage to one model rather than another.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Yeah, I've just checked the table entries for the Apocalypse#Karuna in bp-wep.tbm and bp2-wep.tbm for both the old & new mod versions and there's no differences.  And I used the same exec for all the testing which would suggest that it's not a code problem (although I'm not ruling it out yet, there could be a new code path being followed due to the new model).  It could be that there was some random variation when testing with the old old model, so I'll give that another go at some point to check.  After that I'll see if I can figure out how to calculate the distance between the ships when the torps hit, that should show if the shockwaves are behaving correctly or not.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Kolgena

  • 211
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I've been killed by my own slammers quite enough times, though maybe submunitions don't count.

I think this is for collisions for whether the missile blows up or not. Missile shockwaves still hurt like hell. I've killed myself with my own tempests plenty of times.

 

Offline QuakeIV

  • 29
  • test
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I've been killed by my own slammers quite enough times, though maybe submunitions don't count.

I think this is for collisions for whether the missile blows up or not. Missile shockwaves still hurt like hell. I've killed myself with my own tempests plenty of times.

Dumbfires are how I skip missions with five failures quickly.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I've done some more testing with my debug code logging the distance between the firing and fired on ship and it looks like qwadtep is right.  The shockwaves seem to be doing full damage out to approx 1000 metres, in the new BP2 the Regensburg seems to be getting closer to the Akula than it does in the old BP2 which accounts for the difference in damage from my previous tests.  That's approx 450m at closest recorded approach vs approx 1000m (note: distance calculations done by vm_vec_dist_quick which isn't 100% accurate - and also it'll be the distance between the "centre points" of the ships, not the closest hull sections).  Anyway, it looks like a possible shockwave code bug which needs more investigation...

qwadtep - do you mind posting your test mission for me to investigate with? i.e.

(Engaging a locked Deimos directly above it at ~900m, $Detail distance: (0, 10, 30000, 30000))
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Yeah, those ranges sound all kinds of wrong. The max range for Apocalypse#Karuna shockwaves is supposed to be 200m.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
qwadtep - do you mind posting your test mission for me to investigate with? i.e.

(Engaging a locked Deimos directly above it at ~900m, $Detail distance: (0, 10, 30000, 30000))
Gladly.

[attachment deleted by a ninja]

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Thanks  :)
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

  

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I've checked the test mission with the old BP2 and found that the Apocalypse shockwaves have the same effect, i.e. they damage the firing ship up to distances around 1000m.  From looking at the code, it seems that shockwave damage attenuation calculation uses a sphere centered on the target object (i.e. Karuna) which is compared to the distance from the origin of the shockwave.  The size of the target-object-sphere is the objects radius, which I believe (but haven't confirmed) is the distance from the centre of the ship to the furthest point on the ship.  Obviously, this calculation is rather inaccurate in most cases for the long, thin Karuna.  :D  It also believe that this retail behaviour, the code doesn't seem to have changed significantly since then (weapon_area_calc_damage in weapon/weapons.cpp).

I've also checked this with the new BP2 and both its default Karuna and the new Karuna model posted by The E.  The default new Karuna has an object->radius value of ~1500m, while both the old BP2 Karuna and the newest Karuna have an object->radius of ~800m.  I think that the fact that the problem model had nearly double the radius of the other models is what was making Delenda Est so difficult to complete, that's a *huge* area where the Karunas will take damage from any shockwave, definitely from their own Apocalypses, but probably also from bombs shot down within that radius.  The uber-bomber issue would also contribute extra bomb shockwaves...

Anyway, given that this behaviour is what the old BP2 was balanced for, I'm going to mantis this and come back to it later.  I have a feeling that the solution is going to be a bit complicated...
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Cyborg17

  • 29
  • Life? Don't talk to me about life....
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
It may be a difficult fix, but well done, sir!  :yes:

 

Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
The default new Karuna has an object->radius value of ~1500m, while both the old BP2 Karuna and the newest Karuna have an object->radius of ~800m
eiyeesh. That certainly explains it.

I had kind of wondered if it could be something like this but my IDE is too much of a mess for me to start digging through unfamiliar code. If I could give you a medal or something I would.

I wonder if this means we can blow up the Collie from six clicks away, what with the offcenter anchor point and all.  :drevil:

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

  • Captain Obvious
  • 212
  • Frenchie McFrenchface
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Could you host your old bp-visuals1 somewhere ? I'd like to do tests of my own on the old Karuna.
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Offline Darius

  • Moderator
  • 211
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Pre-update BP2 can be found in the ModDB page...  :nervous:

 

Offline Kobrar44

  • On Suspended Sentence
  • 29
  • Let me tilerape it for you!
    • Steam
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
it seems that shockwave damage attenuation calculation uses a sphere centered on the target object (i.e. Karuna) which is compared to the distance from the origin of the shockwave.
Wouldn't simply using bbox cut it?...
Or LODX
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 07:58:57 am by Kobrar44 »
Oh guys, use that [ url ][ img ][ /img ][ /url ] :/

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
A radius check is a single comparison operation. Bounding box tests involve at least 6 comparisons. So, in retail, :v: only used the radius check because it's reasonably fast and accurate. Might need to rethink that.
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Offline qwadtep

  • 28
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
And it's not like anything in retail shoots enough bombs that a more precise check would be needed.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

  • 210
  • the REAL Nuke of HLP
    • North Carolina Tigers
Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
i've never noticed ships taking damage from shockwaves in retail.  if a bomb can explode that far away and still do damage, i would have thought it would be rather noticeable.
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