Author Topic: KONY 2012  (Read 7897 times)

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Offline Bobboau

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Offline Sololop

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Just saw this, came to see if someone else had mentioned it. I am in full support.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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I don't like being told to watch a video without any context.

I am 1:50 in and still have no idea wtf this is about.

 

Offline Mongoose

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From what I've heard elsewhere, the organization promoting this video is very shady, and the individual in question hasn't posed a threat for several years due to being on the run from international law enforcement.

 

Offline deathfun

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EVERYONE on Facebook has been on about Kony
"No"

 

Offline Bobboau

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you know you can, not give this group money, and still support the plan.
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
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Offline General Battuta

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I've heard a lot of people talking a great deal about how this group is ****ed up and not worth supporting.

also they look dumb


 
 

Offline Dilmah G

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you know you can, not give this group money, and still support the plan.
This is my current M.O.

My understanding is that the movement as it stands is publicly there to bring about appropriate political pressure to make the withdrawal of current US Military advisers in Uganda politically untenable for the incumbent government - this is made pretty clear in the video. By making this a known issue, they've done effectively that and can more or less rest on their laurels regarding it.

I shared it, even attached a sappy little comment to it on facebook and that was that. I'm satisfied that that particular mission is done and I don't see a great deal wrong with doing that.

Whatever Invisible Children's ulterior motives are to this, and what the components of their overall goal is do not matter to me. They do not need our money, and I personally don't think they should have it, given their record.

I think though that the whole thing sets an interesting precedent as one of the handful of things to become worldwide news solely through social networking, and as the video itself says, it's a good example of public pressure effecting positive change out of a government in this context. :. I think that the awareness has been achieved for there to be a major public backlash if the forces were pulled out, which is just about the most we can hope reasonably out of this and there's no reason to give these jokers money given that.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Okay I have to add I know literally nothing about this except what I've seen from both sides on Facebook so I probably shouldn't judge yet

 

Offline Dilmah G

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I've only done some basic reading up on it myself, there are some pretty strong fanatics on both sides of the fence (many who sit on the letskillkony side) but I don't think that Invisible Children's crappy track record should detract from the principles that found the issue itself. To stake a commitment to improving things at least a tiny bit over in Africa is a good enough precedent to set for me.

 

Offline T-LoW

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Offline karajorma

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Offline NGTM-1R

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So the newspaper ran an article on the group's fiances (since they're local, I can now be ashamed of them AND the Creation Museum), and it appears from their tax returns and so forth that they only send about 1/10th of the money they collect.

Which is sent to Ltd. subsidiary in Africa about which nobody knows anything and nothing can be proved.

Sounds good!
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Offline LHN91

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A much much more reasonable look at the whole subject, you know, reasonably critical and not catering to any extreme, though admittedly not explicitly referenced and pretty much entirely aimed at the guy's followers on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO_tSVSg0qc&list=UUOT2iLov0V7Re7ku_3UBtcQ&index=1&feature=plcp

 

Offline deathfun

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"No"

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Well executed campaign, questionable aims.

Mr. Kony has been out of Uganda for about six years and his paramilitary organization mainly doesn't even operate in Uganda any more. Yet, this campaign focuses on calling for help to Uganda (mostly military help).

Factual errors aside, it's questionable whether Ugandan government would be any more deserving of assistance, for what it's worth. President Uganda [sic*] has been in power for 25 years and has removed any limitations to how many subsequent terms one person can be the president. Additionally, Ugandan army stands equally accused of using child soldiers and sexual crimes as Kony's posse, so it begs the question who benefits from this campaign the most?

Certainly Kony and his organization is harmful, but I for one think this might actually be a well executed campaign to turn attention away from the malpractices and problems within official Ugandan leadership and governance.

Or, it might just be people taking economical advantage of the situation and using it to get people to buy stuff to "support" these "invisible children".

In fact that is far more likely option, though the two are not mutually exclusive.

Either way the people doing this campaign are either not aware of full facts, or are cherry picking what information to publish. Either way, they have their own agenda and I doubt it has anything to do with altruism.


Summary: Uganda is yet another corrupt African nation with an authoritarian leader whose army does bad things.

In this nation, there was a rebel faction with an authoritarian, religious leader whose army does bad things.

It is ethically problematic to favour either side - if any assistance were delivered, it should be for removing both problems, and doing that by force usually seems to result in problems far worse than the original cause...


* Don't remember who is president of Uganda, so I am using established practice and calling him President Uganda.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 06:08:06 pm by Herra Tohtori »
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Offline Janos

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Hey, Uganda! I've been there. It's a nice country, easy to travel in. Nice nature. People speak English. Good infrastructure, feels pretty safe. Can recommend.

I decided to write up a little effortpost to describe the Ugandan road to... 2012, I guess. It also sheds a little light on this entire Joseph Kony thing.

Meet Milton Obote, a nice guy. In 1950s he becomes involved with the Bugandan independence movement that later escalates into Ugandan independence movement (Buganda: the southern and southwestern Uganda). In early 1960s he meets an endearing young man named Idi Amin. Obote becomes the first ruler of now-independent Uganda: a nation torn by ethnic and religious conflict. In 1966 Obote's forces perform a coup, overthrow the figurehead king Kabaka Mutesa II, kill a couple of thousand of their political opponents and suspend the constitution. Obote becomes the military dictator and declares himself president for life.

In 1971 a promising young officer, Idi Amin, overthrows Obote, gets Obote supporters killed in scores and starts a new reign. However, he does not kill Obote (who was out of the country at the time), so Obote and his lackeys start plotting against Idi Amin. They get their chance when powertripping Amin decides to attack EVERYTHING around him. Ugandan troops are finally defeated by Tanzanians, who now support an Obote-led competiting faction (UNLF). UNLF was a loose alliance controlled by Obote and one Yoweri Museveni. Uganda's Amin regime is crushed. UNLF is kinda victorious.

Amin was overthrown and fled to exile. Yay, I guess? Ugandan hopes were crushed, however, when the Amin regime was replaced by fractured, bitterly infighting and unstable leaders (three of them, actually). After a bunch of failures, Obote decides no longer to bother with lackeys and runs for president. In fraudulent elections, Obote becomes president and bitter Museveni decides to take his toys, flees to the jungle and gathers a fine collection of child soldiers, war orphans and other choice material. He then begins an armed revolt against his former ally, Obote. Obote and his military right hand, an acholi called Tito Okello, decide to answer in kind and his troops slaughter thousands of people all around the place.  In 1985 Okello overthrows Obote. (I have skipped some people, such as Yusuf Lule, for the sake of clarity). Okello, unsurprisingly, becomes associated with the Acholi people in northernmost Uganda - an area and people neglected by Kampala since... I have no idea. Long time.

Museveni's army of miscreants decides now to stop their insurgency and join forces with Okello. it didn't really work, so Museveni threw a fit, continued his insurgency and after a long bush war overthrows Okello in 1986. Okello's troops scatter around northern Uganda. Phew! Seven years and seven leaders.

For Acholi people, however, the coup is not just political, but also ethnical and partially religious conflict - a former ally overthrowing a first Acholi leader since god knows when. Acholis are not happy. So they do what people did best: ARMED REVOLT!

Armed revolt didn't quite work, and finally Museveni's troops crush the Acholi rebellion (unsurprisingly, hundreds of people are killed in the aftermath). One Acholi spiritualist from this defeated army was called Joseph Kony. He fled into the bush.

While all is going to **** in Northern Uganda, Museveni shows some tact and tries to defuse the northern situation by negotiation - get the rebels and veterans to join his ranks. However, his previous adventures with Okello regime are still fresh in the memory. Many veterans are dubious of Museveni and throw their lot in with yet another splinter army, now known as LRA, Lord's Liberation Army, led by that same Joseph "Spirits are talking to me" Kony.

Kony's force started as a simple run-of-the-mill overthrow the government guerilla movement, but in 1989 they apparently changed their objective. They started to target the Acholi people - which is weird, seeing as many of them are either Acholi or Acholi sympathizers. In 1990s LRA attacked villages, Ugandan troops attacked LRA and villagers, and finally Sudan supported Kony (because Museveni had earlier supported south Sudanese separatists). In 2002 Sudan and Uganda finally got onto a negotiation table and decided to give Ugandan troops a chance to follow Kony across the border (the border issue is a common problem around the world).  As a result Kony's LRA lost most of it support areas. LRA decided to move it's base of operations from Uganda to what is now known as Democratic Republic of Congo. In 2006 many LRA guerillas voluntarily left the shady group to return home... but not everyone. After a joint military operation by Uganda, DRC and Sudan the LRA fled (casually killing congolese, to no one's great surprise) to Central African Republic. LRA has not operated in Uganda since 2006.

I don't even want to start about the Congo wars. It's much longer and more confusing than this story.

Back to 1986. Since then Museveni has ruled Uganda. He is... not that bad, or at least used not to be. Under his rule people are relatively secure* and Uganda is not that poor anymore. He is also pretty liked in Central and South Uganda, and the latest election gave Museveni even more ammo (and of course crushing protests, throwing people into jail etc. etc.).

But the Acholi people? For them Museveni is a bad guy. Museveni's regime has done little to dispell this myth - the northern Uganda is not a warzone, but is badly lagging behind in economic and infrastructure, has a large number of refugees and is still at least somewhat sympathetical to insurgency against Museveni's regime.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 04:56:37 pm by Janos »
lol wtf

 

Offline samiam

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It's better that the government wins as soon as possible just to get the war over with. But I'm sure there are other causes that are worth giving money to.

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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bestseller


No one could write this **** up. If they tried, the plot would be called incredibly cheesy, disjointed and unrealistic.
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