Author Topic: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer  (Read 9737 times)

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Offline Sarafan

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
It's a computer with really tiny bits that uses quantum physics to compute exponentially faster with each additional bit you throw in.

You can read the article, where it explains it, or just think of it as a really, really fast computer from Star Trek or The Matrix.

What surprises me is how they're coming out with this about 20 years earlier than I thought they would.

I read the article but didnt understand that well, thanks for the info.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
e: nm

  

Offline Nuke

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
i always figured quantum entanglement would have communications applications rather than computing applications. using it for say instantaneous communication over astronomical distances, such as real time command and control of mars rovers and the like. but im not sure i understand the quantum mechanics well enough to say if thats feasible or not, though i do know under traditional physics this would be impossible.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
That'd actually be a different technology. Recently, there was an experiment conducted that seemed to prove FTL communication via quantum entanglement possible.
Quantum computers might be able to solve some really interesting mathematical problems, aside from being really useful everywhere you need a really fast computer.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
i always figured quantum entanglement would have communications applications rather than computing applications. using it for say instantaneous communication over astronomical distances, such as real time command and control of mars rovers and the like. but im not sure i understand the quantum mechanics well enough to say if thats feasible or not, though i do know under traditional physics this would be impossible.

As of the present understanding of quantum physics, this is completely impossible. Quantum entanglement cannot pass information without a classical (and thus subluminal) channel as part of the system.

That'd actually be a different technology. Recently, there was an experiment conducted that seemed to prove FTL communication via quantum entanglement possible.

This did not happen.

 

Offline BloodEagle

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
That'd actually be a different technology. Recently, there was an experiment conducted that seemed to prove FTL communication via quantum entanglement possible.

This did not happen.

IIRC, there was a recent experiment (posted on these forums, no less) where a sub-atomic particle was split, and then manipulated.  What happened to one part of the divided particle seemed to happen to the other.

No idea if it was "real", though.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
As of the present understanding of quantum physics, this is completely impossible. Quantum entanglement cannot pass information without a classical (and thus subluminal) channel as part of the system.

could you elaborate on this? I've never quite understood how quantum entanglement worked. all explanations I've read have had a "and stuff happens" part in it.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
That'd actually be a different technology. Recently, there was an experiment conducted that seemed to prove FTL communication via quantum entanglement possible.

This did not happen.

IIRC, there was a recent experiment (posted on these forums, no less) where a sub-atomic particle was split, and then manipulated.  What happened to one part of the divided particle seemed to happen to the other.

No idea if it was "real", though.

This is completely believable - the problem is that this, on its own, isn't useful for communication. If the end state is randomly determined, for instance, you need a classical channel between the two endpoints to actually use it for anything.

Quantum entanglement will be most useful for computation and encryption, not communication.

could you elaborate on this? I've never quite understood how quantum entanglement worked. all explanations I've read have had a "and stuff happens" part in it.

Oh, boy. A good and fair question. Let me give it a shot.

Let's say we entangle two particles. What does this mean? Well, they've both been generated from the same source, for instance, and we know that (because of the laws of the source process, maybe a particular kind of decay), one particle must have an UP spin, and the other a spin of DOWN.

Now, here's the thing: we haven't actually measured the particles yet, so we don't know which one spins UP and which one spins DOWN. In ordinary, classical physics you might think, 'well, one's UP, and one's DOWN, and we just have to look to find out. It's like checking a snake's gender: you don't know until you look, but it's always been a male or a female.'

But in quantum mechanics -- due to the results of a lot of experiments and math -- we've come to believe that both particles actually exist in a state of quantum fuzziness, both UP and DOWN simultaneously. This state of fuzziness lasts until we measure them. When we measure one particle, we collapse the quantum waveform and find out that - wow! this particle spins UP.

It's important to note that the chances of getting UP or DOWN are 50/50. It's a random outcome, a coin flip.

And from there we know that the other particle spins DOWN. It has to; spin has to be conserved.

But hang on a second. If that other particle was in a state of quantum fuzziness, and we still haven't measured it, why did its waveform collapse to DOWN? These particles aren't connected - they might even be hundreds of miles apart. Surely the other particle is still in a state of fuzz, UP/DOWN, waiting to be measured.

But no. It's definitely DOWN. We can check this experimentally. It'll always turn out to be DOWN...as if it somehow knows the other particle turned out UP. It's as if you flip a coin in one room, and every time it comes up heads, a coin flipped in another room comes up tails -- even though there's no communication between the two.

But if there's no hidden variable to be measured, how does this particle know what its distant sibling turned out to be? How does the coin know how the other coin landed?

There has to be some kind of spooky action at a distance - some sort of instantaneous, nonlocal link between the entangled particles that lasts until they're measured.

That's a really simplified explanation. I can go into more detail if you like, and also try to explain why it's completely useless for communication, but good for encryption.

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
That'd actually be a different technology. Recently, there was an experiment conducted that seemed to prove FTL communication via quantum entanglement possible.
Quantum computers might be able to solve some really interesting mathematical problems, aside from being really useful everywhere you need a really fast computer.

I.e. Gaming :) Just admit it, we re all thinking it! ... best chance of developing AI that will take over the world as well!

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
I can ... try to explain why it's completely useless for communication

Please. That's the part that I don't quite get.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
I can ... try to explain why it's completely useless for communication

Please. That's the part that I don't quite get.

Simply put: when you measure the particle's spin, the outcome is completely random, so there's no way to exchange meaningful information.

Say you decide to measure your entangled particle and you get UP.

Meanwhile, the other guys, on Alpha Centauri, measure their entangled particle and get DOWN. They suspect that maybe this is because you measured yours and got UP...but, some of them suggest, it's really just a random measurement, and you on Earth haven't made the measurement at all yet.

What does that tell either of you? Nothing. There's no way to distinguish decoherence-as-a-signal from the simple random outcome of measuring the particle.

The only way to use an entangled pair for useful communication is if you also have a classical channel, a way to tell each other what you're doing...which is, of course, slower than light.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 11:17:58 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
ok, I thought there was some way you could change a property of an entangled particle and that change would manifest in the other.

this does feel like there is something here though, either the fuzzyness isn't as fuzzy as we thought of some sort of ftl thing is happening, probably the former :\
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
I hereby declare that the simile "like checking a snake's gender" needs to be used far more often than it is.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
ok, I thought there was some way you could change a property of an entangled particle and that change would manifest in the other.

this does feel like there is something here though, either the fuzzyness isn't as fuzzy as we thought of some sort of ftl thing is happening, probably the former :\

You can change a property of an entangled particle and the change manifests in the other - the problem is that you can't decide whether to set the particle to UP or DOWN; the outcome is random.

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
Well damn. I thought we could control that somehow. And even if you could you wouldn't know for sure if the other guy had his particle "set" or not.
No ansibles then. :doubt:
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
You can change a property of an entangled particle and the change manifests in the other - the problem is that you can't decide whether to set the particle to UP or DOWN; the outcome is random.

but you can chose to change it or not right? what if you set up a system where it changes some property a 50 times every microsecond for a one and not at all for a 0, the other side writes a 1 if any change happened within a time window, and 0 if no change was observed, wouldn't that be usable? sure with that particular setup you would be likely to have an erroneous bit every petabyte or so, but CRC can correct for that.

or are there natural flips like this that also happen and there would be no way to tell if it was you compatriot on the other end or just random quantum noise?
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Offline redsniper

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
I think the point is, if you measure a change on the other side, you have no way of knowing if it was intentional or not.
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
(Gah, ninja'd.)

The trick with the quantum world is that the particle doesn't "collapse" into one set possibility, and therefore set the other entangled particle the opposite way, until you actually perform the act of measuring it.  (Crazy?  Yes, but that's quantum for you.)  Battuta's point is that, from the perspective of the person on the other end getting your "signal," there's no way to tell if the result they're seeing is due to your initial collapse of the first particle's waveform, or their collapse of the second in the process of measuring it.  And on top of that, the person sending the "message" has no control over what state the first particle collapses into...like Battuta said, it's just like flipping a coin.  To further that analogy, the entire process is akin to the sender not even knowing what message they're going to send until after they flip a coin, and the receiver having no way of knowing if they're getting the results of the first coin flip, or instead flipping their own coin.  The only way to make it work would be for the sender to also send a message stating what their initial result was...which kind of defeats the whole purpose, since that message could only travel at the speed of light anyway.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
but you can chose to change it or not right? what if you set up a system where it changes some property a 50 times every microsecond for a one and not at all for a 0

Once the particle has been measured, the entanglement snaps. (uh i'm pretty sure at least) You get one use of each particle, that's it. Not that the use buys you anything, because...

Quote
the other side writes a 1 if any change happened within a time window, and 0 if no change was observed, wouldn't that be usable?

How do you know if anything changes? You have to measure the particle to check its value, which causes its quantum state to collapse to UP or DOWN.

Say you measure the particle and get spin UP. How do you discern between the following scenarios:

1) The other side hasn't taken a measurement yet. You just did the first measurement and got spin UP.

2) The other side has taken a measurement and got spin DOWN.

I was about to make another coin flip analogy but Mongoose did it better.

 

Offline samiam

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Re: IBM Says It's 'On the Cusp' of Building a Quantum Computer
Basically the whole uncertainty thing is a theoretical construct and you could just as accurately say that no data transmission ever took place and the spin of each particle was predetermined. I know, sometimes interpretations of quantum physics are unnecessarily confusing.