Author Topic: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]  (Read 9015 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Wow, that's....****ing awesome.

Eh... fighting another possesed Saren? No thanks.

Talking thousands of super-ships with the intellect of entire races into suicide? No thanks. That reeks of Shepard talk-jitsu Mary Sue super pwoer mroe than anything else.

There is suprisingly little that needs to be changed for the endings to make sense (and I'm talking about sense, NOT making the endings someones wish-fulfillment. I don't think a "happy" ending is necessary at all - and it isn't.)


You could just have the races fight of the reapers unsucesfully, and their last gambit is using the Citadel to overload all relays and blast the reapers, but at hte cost of destroign the mass relays (no guaridna, catalyst of crucible needed).
You can have Shep side with TIM and help him get control over the reapers. Or double-cross him and get control over them yourself.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Of course, this logic has several flaws. First of which is the base assumption that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life.

Eventually, conflict is inevitable.
Competition and expansion will see to that.


Your reasoning assumes that expansion will be an important motivator. That may not necessarily be the case, but even if it is, like said, it only leads to conflict of interests. Conflict of interest does not equate to violent conflict; there are other solutions, such as symbiotic relationship, co-operation, forming alliances etc.

Even in a situation where the conflict cannot be resolved with non-violent solutions, escalation to violent conflict does not necessarily equate to definite victory of one side - that usually requires that the winning side has some significant advantage in numbers, resources or technological level. And, even then, this does not necessarily mean that the losing party would be completely exterminated.


And, finally, even if the losing party were to be exterminated, this doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad thing. Takeovers of ecological lockers happen all the time in evolutionary history. What the Reapers are doing is forcing their own perception of "good" on the evolution of galactic civilizations by assigning an arbitrary technological advancement level on organic life; when a civilization reaches a certain level of advancement, they are destroyed.

This is not "protecting" organic life from synthetic life; it's meddling in the natural process of evolution.

If the natural process tends to lead to synthetic life taking over and rendering organic life obsolete, then so be it. Why is this a bad thing? No one ever said why the Reapers seem so convinced about that. If synthetic life takes over the ecologic locker in the galaxy and renders organic life obsolete, then it is just one step in the natural process of evolution and nothing to really fuss over - it would be analogous to fish taking over from crustaceans, or dinosaurs becoming supreme land animals over amphibians and earlier reptiles.

If the Reapers are worried about loss of variety of life, they need not be - at some point, synthetic life forms occupying the galaxy will start to exhibit just as much variation as organic life; they will have their own cultures, factions, wars and diplomacy.

There's nothing significant that would make synthetic life somehow less valuable than organic life. To say otherwise requires placing some inherent value on organic life as opposed to synthetic, and it's hard to do that when there's not even a clear definition what life is, nevermind differences between synthetic and organic life.


Obviously each species and culture have a right to fight for their survival, but the Reapers really have no place acting as the Evolution Police of the galaxy, and with any sort of logical processing they would realize this.


This is why I think their motivation as portrayed in ME3 is not exactly ideal, and I would love to think that there is more to them than that.


For example, maybe they are simply obsessed by archiving successful species' genetics and behavioural patterns on a certain time period.

Perhaps they simply value variety of life, and wish to see continuous stream of new species forming new cultures, as opposed to hegemonic structures stifling everything else, like the Prothean culture seems to have done.

Or maybe they have some goal of their own that requires harvesting successful species and creating Reapers based on them. It might not even be necessary to reveal that.


Maybe the Citadel AI could be a VI instead, and when asked WHY the reapers need to convert organic life to Reapers it could answer "No data available".


I always loved that response from Legion when he didn't really know what to say.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
What the Reapers are doing is forcing their own perception of "good" on the evolution of galactic civilizations by assigning an arbitrary technological advancement level on organic life; when a civilization reaches a certain level of advancement, they are destroyed.

Don't we all?


[qutoe]
This is not "protecting" organic life from synthetic life; it's meddling in the natural process of evolution.[/quote]

Evolution? How is it "meddling"?
If sinethetics destroying organics is part of "evolution", then reapers meddling is also part of "evolution".

Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

  • The Academic
  • 211
  • Bad command or file name
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Quote
This is not "protecting" organic life from synthetic life; it's meddling in the natural process of evolution.

Evolution? How is it "meddling"?
If sinethetics destroying organics is part of "evolution", then reapers meddling is also part of "evolution".


Valid point, except the Reapers are not an active participant for the most of the galaxy's evolution. They spend their time mostly in dark space, in hibernation, not doing any evolving of their own, then they come back every 50,000 years and harvest the **** out of the prominent galactic civilization, stopping the advancement of those civilizations.

The Reapers are not evolving. They resort to multiplying by harvesting organic life, converting them into Reapers, rather than developing themselves as they build new variations of themselves.

Thus, the Reaper evolution is only happening as far as the evolution of organic life allows. And, the timeframe of the cycle means that statistically the spacefaring cultures won't be free to evolve - there's only 50,000 years between the harvest cycles, so the Reapers are not only constricting their own evolution, but also the evolution of life (both organic and synthetic) within the influence of mass relay network.



Thankfully, the rest of the galaxy will be blissfully ignorant and free of this ridiculous stagnation that the Reapers are enforcing on the species unlucky enough to come from planets close to the relay network.
There are three things that last forever: Abort, Retry, Fail - and the greatest of these is Fail.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Which is irrlevant.

Doesn't matter if you consider what reapers do "evolution" or not.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline ShadowGorrath

  • Not funny or clever
  • 211

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker
    • My old squad sub-domain
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
I'm not reading anything, as i've not finished it yet....

Buuuuuuut, my ending would be as follows...

Lady Shepherd and Miranda [redacted] forcefully [redacted] sideways [redacted] omni-tool [redacted][redacted] yelped [redacted] [redacted] [redacted]Ashley grabbed her [redacted] smiled [redacted] Liara, Tali and Jack all appeared by wizard magic wielding [redacted[ wearing [redacted] When Kelly Chambers came in to the room begging Miranda to [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted] CUSTARD!

[redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted]Smoking a cigarette in  a most unusual [redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted].

The end :yes:


Samantha Traynor too. :nervous:

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
I'm not reading anything, as i've not finished it yet....

Buuuuuuut, my ending would be as follows...

Lady Shepherd and Miranda [redacted] forcefully [redacted] sideways [redacted] omni-tool [redacted][redacted] yelped [redacted] [redacted] [redacted]Ashley grabbed her [redacted] smiled [redacted] Liara, Tali and Jack all appeared by wizard magic wielding [redacted[ wearing [redacted] When Kelly Chambers came in to the room begging Miranda to [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted] [redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted] CUSTARD!

[redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted]Smoking a cigarette in  a most unusual [redacted][redacted][redacted][redacted].

The end :yes:


Samantha Traynor too. :nervous:




BEST....ENDING...EVER!!!!  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Ace

  • Truth of Babel
  • 212
    • http://www.lordofrigel.com
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Wow, that's....****ing awesome.

Eh... fighting another possesed Saren? No thanks.

Talking thousands of super-ships with the intellect of entire races into suicide? No thanks. That reeks of Shepard talk-jitsu Mary Sue super pwoer mroe than anything else.

There is suprisingly little that needs to be changed for the endings to make sense (and I'm talking about sense, NOT making the endings someones wish-fulfillment. I don't think a "happy" ending is necessary at all - and it isn't.)


You could just have the races fight of the reapers unsucesfully, and their last gambit is using the Citadel to overload all relays and blast the reapers, but at hte cost of destroign the mass relays (no guaridna, catalyst of crucible needed).
You can have Shep side with TIM and help him get control over the reapers. Or double-cross him and get control over them yourself.

You're entitled to your own opinion but it fits more with the feeling of the rest of the game and the callbacks to Mass Effect 1.

The ongoing repeated theme of the game is also "there must be another way" and giving Shepard his John J. "Nuke 'Em" Sheridan "Get the hell out of our galaxy!" moment fits well with that theme and the overall pulpy feeling of the setting. If talking the Reapers to death is Shepard wank why isn't curing the genophage, or uniting the Quarians and Geth? It's all about a single person being at the right place at the right time.

Shepard being able to use the Catalyst (the culmination of all past cycles) as a threat and showing to the Reapers that synthetics and organics don't have to be at odds fits with the themes.

Of course this does bring up one issue with the moved citadel, the Reapers also typically shut down the relay system at the start of the extinction cycle. I was a bit surprised there wasn't a line that the Relays were shut down when the Reapers took the Citadel but Shepard's Reaper IFF let the fleet reach Earth.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 05:15:55 pm by Ace »
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline achtung

  • Friendly Neighborhood Mirror Guy
  • 210
  • ****in' Ace
    • Minecraft
    • Freespacemods.net
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
FreeSpaceMods.net | FatHax | ??????
In the wise words of Charles de Gaulle, "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."

Formerly known as Swantz

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
You're entitled to your own opinion but it fits more with the feeling of the rest of the game and the callbacks to Mass Effect 1.

The ongoing repeated theme of the game is also "there must be another way" and giving Shepard his John J. "Nuke 'Em" Sheridan "Get the hell out of our galaxy!" moment fits well with that theme and the overall pulpy feeling of the setting.

Feel and theme are rather subjective. And apprantly you are wrong since the devs wanted to end the series on a giant "reset button", thus kinda going counter to your theory.

And hte "reset bottun" and great sacrifice do work well in the context of total anihiliation. Too bad it was execuated horribly.




Quote
If talking the Reapers to death is Shepard wank why isn't curing the genophage, or uniting the Quarians and Geth? It's all about a single person being at the right place at the right time.

A lot of stuff is Shepard wank. and it's no about being in the right place at the right time - it's about being able to convince anyone of everything. Having God-like persuasion power.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline mxlm

  • 29
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Actually it occurs to me that you may have stumbled into one of the reasons we got the endings we did.

They make the MMO impossible.

Only if the internet backlash is representative and the IP's cachet has taken massive damage. Otherwise:

EA Corporate: ME MMO. Make it happen.
Writers: But we can't because
EA Corporate: Me boss, you employee. Make it happen. You're a writer, write something.

But I don't think a ME MMO is likely. It'd have to be voiced, which means you're looking at another SW:TOR. Sure, you can cut costs by borrowing technology from that game, but you're still talking about making a ludicrously expensive game when it's not even clear that the first ludicrously expensive game is going to be profitable.
I will ask that you explain yourself. Please do so with the clear understanding that I may decide I am angry enough to destroy all of you and raze this sickening mausoleum of fraud down to the naked rock it stands on.

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

  • Operates at 375 kelvin
  • 28
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Actually it occurs to me that you may have stumbled into one of the reasons we got the endings we did.

They make the MMO impossible.

Only if the internet backlash is representative and the IP's cachet has taken massive damage. Otherwise:

EA Corporate: ME MMO. Make it happen.
Writers: But we can't because
EA Corporate: Me boss, you employee. Make it happen. You're a writer, write something.

But I don't think a ME MMO is likely. It'd have to be voiced, which means you're looking at another SW:TOR. Sure, you can cut costs by borrowing technology from that game, but you're still talking about making a ludicrously expensive game when it's not even clear that the first ludicrously expensive game is going to be profitable.

Also borrowing technology from TOR is a bad idea, because the Obvious Beta engine sucks. If there was an ME MMO, keep in mind that it wouldn't necessarily have to be fully voiced. Theoretically, if I were a dev, I'd actually avoid the main ME story and maaaybe consider having the main characters make cameos, but that's it. Mostly, you run into the problem of the fact that there couldn't be a canon Shep.

Bit more OT: if BioWare releases DLC with the "real" ending, then that will earn them the Troll of the Year award and Magnificent Bastard status.

 

Offline Hades

  • FINISHING MODELS IS OVERRATED
  • 212
  • i wonder when my polycounts will exceed my iq
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Feel and theme are rather subjective. And apprantly you are wrong since the devs wanted to end the series on a giant "reset button", thus kinda going counter to your theory.

And hte "reset bottun" and great sacrifice do work well in the context of total anihiliation. Too bad it was execuated horribly.
Citation needed.

(you also need a spellchecker really badly too)
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Citation for what? That having no ending wihout considerable sacrifice possible is a valid way to end a story?

Or for the theme? IF it's that, I want to see your citation for what the theme is...


Now, if it were up to me, I'd do a lot of thigns differently. The kid wouldn't be as prominent. No dreams. The kid would die before the Normandy arrives, Anderson and Shep watching impotently from the building. They'd talk about Anderson stying behind as they wait for the Normandy. The Normandy would swoop in and out, no howering, no waiting. A ship or two would sacrifice themselves to draw attention from the Normandy.

No kid guardian. No citadel being alive or a mster cotnrol unit for reapers. No repaers beign stupidly stupid. No robo-EDI.
TIM isnt' indoctrinated, Cerberus working with you..untill the end. THEN they stab you if you disagree with TIM about control. And you have to fight them. Then you can destroy the reapers or try to control them yourself.
If you agree they work with you (some aliens might object tough) and TIM gains control of the reapers.

No magical space magic synthsis. Reapers making some DAMN SENSE. Kai Leng does die as stupidly. Has more development. No Normandy crash-landing.

Mass Relays blowing up - can stay.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
http://social.bioware.com/forum/Mass-Effect-3/Mass-Effect-3-Story-and-Campaign-Discussion-Spoilers-Allowed/This-guy-got-the-ending-right--9833130-1.html

A very good fan ending. This is almost precisely what I was actually expecting.

I personally don't like it. Better than the current one, but I still don't like it.

It triviliazes the reapers and again makes the "hard" choices irrelevant.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Hades

  • FINISHING MODELS IS OVERRATED
  • 212
  • i wonder when my polycounts will exceed my iq
    • Skype
    • Steam
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Citation for what?

Feel and theme are rather subjective. And apprantly you are wrong since the devs wanted to end the series on a giant "reset button", thus kinda going counter to your theory.

And hte "reset bottun" and great sacrifice do work well in the context of total anihiliation. Too bad it was execuated horribly.
Kinda makes me wonder if you actually read what you post sometimes.
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
<batwota> wouldn’t that mean that it’s prepared to kiss your ass if you flank it :p
<batwota> wow
<batwota> KILL

 

Offline Ace

  • Truth of Babel
  • 212
    • http://www.lordofrigel.com
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
No kid guardian. No citadel being alive or a mster cotnrol unit for reapers. No repaers beign stupidly stupid. No robo-EDI.
TIM isnt' indoctrinated, Cerberus working with you..untill the end. THEN they stab you if you disagree with TIM about control.

Cerberus was necessary to have variety in missions and targets. However, what should have been clear from dialog (TIM holograms at the end of missions when you beat them) is that he is interfering with Shepard's efforts to unite species because he's using them all as canon fodder to buy more time. The Krogan helping the Turians or destroying the Reaper on Tuchanka will make the Reapers shift to a real offensive instead of feeling confident in their supremacy, and everyone looses.

Shepard obviously doesn't buy that and continues the line of "you're wasting resources that should be used to help humanity!" That would be combined with "You can't understand the sacrifices I'm having to make for yoo-manity, Shepard hope you never do." sort of deal.

As it is, it seems that he's not indoctrinated until he modifies himself after Thessia. But it would have been nice to have a few more dialogs to hammer that home and how is "screw all other species I need to buy myself more time for my plans" is the issue.

I would have downplayed the Alliance thinking Cerberus is outright working for the Reapers and played up that Cerberus had a massive boost from "Shepard was right, Shepard supported Cerberus!" but realizing that this was all TIM's plan to appear legitimate while doing utterly horrific things in the name of controling the Reapers.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 05:38:03 pm by Ace »
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Citation for what?

Feel and theme are rather subjective. And apprantly you are wrong since the devs wanted to end the series on a giant "reset button", thus kinda going counter to your theory.

And hte "reset bottun" and great sacrifice do work well in the context of total anihiliation. Too bad it was execuated horribly.
Kinda makes me wonder if you actually read what you post sometimes.

You want me to provide citation for what the devs did? This IS how ME3 ends. What citation do you need?  :wtf:

They made the end they wanted. The end ALWAYS involves great sacrifice and destruction fo mass relays.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • Minecraft
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Cerberus was necessary to have variety in missions and targets.

BULL****!
Nothing is "necessary". You're telling me bioWare couldn't have comed up with different enemies? Like indoctrinated aliens of all races?
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!