Author Topic: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]  (Read 9018 times)

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Offline MatthTheGeek

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ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Title says it all. We're not here to argue whether the ME3 ending sucks or not. If you come post here, it means you already agree that the ME3 ending sucks.

Don't expect what will follow to be spoiler-free.


Basically, unless you have a better idea, let's consider that everything until the death of the Illusive Man and the activation of the Crucible is canon. From there, we have to decide what will the Crucible do, and what the consequences will be for the rest of the galaxy.

Here are some of my ideas :

1) The Crucible turns to be some sort of weapon, capable of one-shotting reapers or something long those lines. We kill all reapers. The galaxy starts to rebuild in peace. End of story.

2) The Crucible sends some sort of signal that disable all the reapers. From there, the galaxy has to face the dilemna of what to do with hundreds of inert reapers hulls orbiting their words, knowing that they could still be dangerous.

3) The Crucible sends some sort of signal that disrupt the reaper's ability to communicate and control their minions. Hence the galaxy can use clever tactics to pick the disorganized reapers one by one. That will not go without heavy losses, but winning the war through conventional tactics could potentially be at hand.

One of the main details to remove from the current ending is the destructions of all mass effect relays. We can go as far, however, as a signal deactivating the mass relays, so that they're in the state they were when we first discovered them after the Prothean purge.

All ideas are welcome. Feel free to improve and refine ideas already given by me or others.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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Offline Mort

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
The reapers do not destroy the galaxy because of a war with synthetics. They do so because evolution ultimately leads to stagnation. The protheans are a clear example where they subjugated you. Thus, advanced civilizations are purged to allow new races to flourish.
The race that would most likely end up dominating the galaxy is harvested into the capital ship reapers while others into destroyers. Humanity occupies this position which would explain the reaper's focus on them.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
We already know that. That is not what we're trying to retcon here.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Mod management tools     -     Wiki stuff!     -     Help us help you

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Mort

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
No you don't. The canon motive is because synthetics will eliminate organics. This would affect the endings as the merge option becomes moot. I just hate the reasoning behind the reapers. Bioware mucked that up. Their motivation does make up the ending
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 08:05:21 am by Mort »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Here's a ****ing better ending that calls back to Mass Effect 1 and is the ****ing best

OPTIONAL STEP 1: LONDON (this is resource intensive and Bioware never would've done it)

At the end of the London sequence, Harbinger descends to kill Shep before s/he can reach the beam.

You must make a choice: send a squadmate or two out to distract Harbinger while you make a run for the beam, or exploit Harbinger's obsession with you to draw him off yourself. If you make the former choice, squadmate dies. If you make the latter choice, Shep dies, but your squad presses on, showing that Shep's heroism is as much about inspiring others as it's about [RIGHT HOOK].

CRUCIAL STEP 2: CATALYST

The Catalyst AI talks to whoever makes it [Shep or squadmate]. If you have enough war assets, you can say:

Hang on a second. You're a Reaper AI. You control all the Reapers. You're linked.

When Sovereign controlled Saren, and we killed Saren, Sovereign's barriers dropped.

If we kill you, the Reapers' barriers will drop. Everywhere.

Hackett, fire everything you've got at the Citadel. Blow the **** out of it.

The fleet engages the Citadel, and the Reapers try to defend it. The game checks your War Assets against the strength of the Reaper fleet. If they're not high enough, the fleet is wiped out and the Reapers win. If they are high enough, the Citadel is destroyed and the Reapers can be beaten by conventional means, but the Normandy is destroyed. If they're ireally high, the Normandy flies in and rescues the squadmates. Happy ending for all!

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Well, the Reapers keep spouting their drivel about being the "salvation" for organics.

So, their perception is that they save the organics for something. The reason stated in the canon is the creation of synthetic life that ends up destroying organic life.

However, that alone is oxymoron; life is life, synthetic or organic - there is no fundamental difference whether the molecular machinery is running on naturally evolved chemistry, or intentionally designed one, and similarly it doesn't make a difference whether the being is controlled by an organic neural network generated consciousness, or a true AI.

The Reapers' logic seems to be this:

1. organic life will eventually create synthetic life, if allowed to develop it freely

2. synthetic life created by organic life will eventually rebel

3. synthetic life created by sufficiently advanced organic life will end up uncontrollable by its creator species, and, in worst case, uncontrollable by anyone or anything

4. synthetic life will for some reason be motivated to destroy all organic life

5. to prevent destruction of all organic life, synthetic life must not be allowed to be freely developed

6. to prevent the free development of synthetic life by organics, the organic cultures must be periodically stopped so that they do not advance far enough to create unstoppable synthetic life

7. to prevent the destruction of said organic cultures, they are harvested instead of being destroyed - the harvesting could, in a way, be descrived as "archiving" the species in Reaper form.



Of course, this logic has several flaws. First of which is the base assumption that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life. The game tries to address this at one point where EDI poses a question about the meaning of synthetic life, but fails to follow-through on it, especially with the later evolution of Geth to become true AI's. So, we are not given any actual proof that synthetic life will always attempt to wipe out organic life; in fact we are given evidence of contrary, that synthetics and organics can live in co-existence or even symbiotic relationship.

Secondly, there is no explanation as to why synthetic life taking over would be an explicitely bad thing to happen. When there's no functional difference between synthetic and organic data, what then is supposed to be the difference? I for one do not see one.

So, in their determination to solve a "problem", the Reapers have become a much bigger problem themselves. Instead of allowing the galaxy to evolve freely, on either organic or synthetic route, they are effectively enforcing a level of stagnation where no space-faring civilization can be much older than 50,000 years. While a long time for a civilization, this is not especially long time in evolution of species. That basically means that the species capable of forming space-faring civilizations must already be pretty well evolved at the time of a purge in order to participate in the galactic civilization of the next cycle.

Additionally, as a long term solution, the Reapers are a piss poor one. At some point, they will run out of new species to harvest because the prominent sapient species from all the planets within the Mass Relay network have been eradicated and new sapient species have not had the time to evolve. What will they do when they have harvested all the species?

At that point, synthetic life has, basically, eradicated organic life and taken over - an occurrence the Reapers specifically claim to be designed to avert, according to the Citadel AI.



The interesting thing in Mass Effect galaxy is that there could be millions of relay networks equal in size and distribution to that connecting the Humans, Asari, Salarians, Turians and all the other species shown in the series. There could be thousands of galactic civilizations, working on overlayed networks but never gaining contact with each other. The Milky Way is 100,000-120,000 light-years in diameter, and after discovering the Mass Relays, a civilization would have little use for powerful radio- or laser communications limited by speed of light, when they have a convenient FTL communications and transportation facility at hand.

The Mass Effect galaxy is far, far too small to depict an entire galaxy of species, and it is my belief that the network of relays known in the game is only a small fraction of what is going on in the entire galaxy.


It is possible that the original Mass Relays were constructed by a single species that put them in places they deemed probable to produce life - it might explain the high ratio of habitable planets on the systems known in Mass Effect, almost every system has at least one earth-like planet on goldilocks' zone (with atmospheric pressure and temperature allowing the existence of liquid water).

There could be other relay networks, either built by the same species, or possibly built by other species utilizing the same Mass Effect technology.

Perhaps the Reapers themselves only "police" a small fraction of the galaxy - the area connected to the specific relay network constructed by the original species.



Then there is the question whether the Citadel was built by the same species as the Mass Relays. Although I doubt it has been stated anywhere, it seems a logical assumption that in canon, the Citadel, the Mass Relays, and the Reapers were all the product of same entity.

Further speculation from my part is that the Crucible was actually part of the original design specification of the Citadel, rather than an "add-on" designed by subsequent civilizations. Or, to be exact, the design specification for the Crucible was likely left behind by the original species, and later found, adapted and worked on by other civilizations until it reached its form seen in Mass Effect 3.

Its capabilities and basic functionality (such as how it interfaces with the Citadel) need to be determined; in the canon it is capable of the following remarkable feats:

1. Destruction of all synthetic life, reapers included, but somehow capable of differentiating with normal machinery and construction

2. Subjugation of all synthetic life to a deceased person's will

3. Combining all living things, organic and synthetic, into one entity of combined organic-synthetic beings that evolve using a "new DNA", whatever that's supposed to mean.


None of these options either make sense or are especially appealing to Shepard or the player, considering that two of them spell certain doom for the main character and the third one offers only a slight chance of survival depending on how much effective military strength Shepard has under control. This will likely deter many players who don't see any option as a "good" ending; I confess to being one of them. But, death by heroic sacrifice is of course a valid way of writing off a character, so I can understand Bioware doing this - except for the Conan Doyle sight of Shepard taking a breath at the Destroy ending if you have enough points...

The bigger problem for the Mass Effect universe is, obviously, the destruction of the Mass Relays themselves. There is no longer a convenient FTL comm and transport structure in place to funnel civilizations to Citadel (which also is destroyed as far as I could tell), so they are left to their own devices for untold amount of time. Building a relay network takes significant amount of time if you have to move from point A to point B at slower speed, and construct the relays at every relevant point.



So, what I see the ending having is:

-viable option to keep Shepard alive
-option that doesn't involve categoric destruction/subjugation of all synthetic life
-option that doesn't involve destruction of the relay network and the Citadel


All of these would seem to require modifications to the canon behaviour of the Crucible, most crucially, but adaptations to (or removal of) the Citadel AI are also needed. My hypothesis is that all the three modes of Crucible action utilize the energy source and relay connection provided by the Citadel, and the Crucible merely provides means of converting the energy to desired effect by magitech handwavium.

Part of the energy is released in an initial burst, and part is directed to the relay network, whereupon it causes each relay to release their energy and to convert it into the effect desired by the Crucible activator.


Matth's suggestions about using the Crucible to disrupt Reaper communications (including indoctrination) sounds viable; it could be explained that the Crucible device makes each Mass Effect relay prevent Reapers from using their communications within typical short range FTL flight range of the relay itself, so that would make the systems themselves safe from indoctrination.

This option would do nothing to the individual Reapers' capabilities in space, which is where they have proven to be the most effective and dangerous opponents. They could also reasonably easily adapt to the comms warfare - but implanting their minions with communications systems that use less easily disruptable means of communicating.


Other options would make the Crucible-Citadel some sort of Death Star (we all expected something like that, didn't we?), or some of the more drastic means of survival.

The Crucible could be a cloaking device - pack up the Citadel and hide it somewhere along with the assembled fleets. It could also double up as a warp drive of some sort, for additional range if required.




These are the voyages of the Starfleet Citadel.

Its continuing mission: To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to find habitable planets for all the species in it; to boldly go where no member of galactic civilization has gone before.



Battuta's option about blowing the **** out of Citadel itself sounds oddly appealing, even if it ends with a failure as the Reapers just shrug it off and continue harvesting. Maybe the Crucible could be used as a bomb to destroy the citadel internally, by attaching it, then closing the arms and detonating it within - perhaps shielding Earth from the explosion but destroying all the relevant hardware inside the protective arms.


EDIT: Someone mentioned the Dark Energy foreshadowing in #HLP-ME3, and Swantz posted this in the other ME3 thread:




It would certainly be a more compelling motive for the Reapers than the stuff they were given.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 10:07:31 am by Herra Tohtori »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Legion surviving and confront the Catalyst AI along with Shepard, or EDI, would have been interesting. Similarly, if you could bring the Geth fleet to fight the Reapers, that will also serve. The Reapers are here to protect us from the Geth and their kin, supposedly. That the Geth instead have chosen to stand with organic life against them should give them pause.

So we make the flawed nature of their philosophy an integral part of the ending. Faced with synthetics and organics shoulder-to-shoulder, the Reapers flinch. Harbinger attempts to assert his control over the other Reapers via the Crucible; some of the other Reapers attempt to declare their interest in talking via the Crucible; some of them just FTL out of the system but the Crucible can be used to track them down.

Paragon/Renegade check time: Destroy the Reapers completely while they're scattered and confused? Destroy only those that pose a direct threat and let the rest make up their own minds about what to do? Make peace with some of the Reapers and with their help defeat Harbinger and his followers?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 11:31:54 am by NGTM-1R »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Herra: I saw that SomethingAwful post when it came up and honestly, no, that's even worse than what we got.

It was bad when Star Trek TNG did it and it'd be bad now.

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
You know, after reading that, the only thing I can think of is Gurren Lagann...
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
You know, after reading that, the only thing I can think of is Gurren Lagann...

you are the first person on the entire internet to make this comparison

 

Offline Polpolion

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
my ideal ending:

The reapers kill everyone.

There are several things you can do to try and stop them but ultimately all of them are fruitless. Also there is no ending cutscene, the end of the game is just an infinite gauntlet of progressively more impossible waves of enemies. It'd be a nice slap in the face from a series that has emphasized that your actions have consequences.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
It'd be a nice slap in the face from a series that has emphasized that your actions have consequences.

And then we end up making this thread over again. GOOD JOB.
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Offline Polpolion

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
why would I want to consider what you want in my ideal ending? Still, didn't really not expect that kind of response, especially considering I never really had any intention of posting a popular ending. :p

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
why would I want to consider what you want in my ideal ending?

I dunno, why would anyone want to consider what makes a fitting end to a series in their conception of an ideal ending? :p You pretty much outlined why that doesn't fit in your own post.
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Offline Polpolion

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
:( that's why I like it so much. The player has spent so much time playing through the series and grooming his saves, but in the end there are some things you just can't do!

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
:( that's why I like it so much. The player has spent so much time playing through the series and grooming his saves, but in the end there are some things you just can't do!

Actually it occurs to me that you may have stumbled into one of the reasons we got the endings we did.

They make the MMO impossible.
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Offline Ace

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Thinking about it, a better ending would be that the Crucible is mutually assured destruction. The Arrival acts as foreshadowing for the crucible.

If activated it will use the Citadel to activate and detonate every relay in the galaxy, wiping out the Reapers and all organic life. The relays will vaporize entire systems making it impossible for complex life to continue to evolve. Shepard realizes this and endings are based on the war preparation score.

Too low of an EMS, the Crucible is damaged and automatically fires. In this ending Shepard barely gets a message through to joker telling him to get the hell out of there, anywhere as fast as he can. Joker responds that he's rescued as much of Hammer as he could, and reads you then it gets jammed as the Crucible builds up. The Normandy tries to outrun the shockwave and crashes on an unknown planet like in the current ending with their descendants being those who restart galactic civilization.

At a higher EMS it charges and Shepard is given a few flashes from the crucible's VI (in a manner similar to the beacon) and realizes what it really does.

Then a hologram of Harbinger shows up Harbinger possesses the Illusive Man's corpse (like Sovereign did with Saren) in order to try to stop Shepard from firing the Crucible (some paragon and renegade interrupts with a half dead Shepard trying to fight a Harbinger possessed husk. It ends with crippling his limbs and being disabled). Shepard threatens to use the crucible and end the cycle forever since *ALL* life and the Reapers will be gone from the cascade of relay destruction.

Throughout this you can use MAD to make the Reapers leave: "if you ever return we'll use the Crucible" and Harbinger menacingly says that this isn't over, your civilization will eventually forget and then they will return.

The ultimate ending would be convincing the Reapers that their logic is flawed based off of your uniting the galaxy, organics and synthetics, and either A) convincing them to self shutdown or B) convincing Harbinger that Shepard has done the Reaper's task better than them and that Shepard will be the template for a Reaper provided they leave (this then has sub renegade endings where you use the other Reapers for human supremacy or just have them leave for when they are needed).

This then cuts to a final end scene of everyone in the ruins of London with Hackett, Victus, and Wrex giving a speech about the sacrifices made and the need to rebuild. You see your other squad mates with the love interest crying if Shepard joins with the Reapers. Otherwise the camera slowly pans past all of them looking solemn with slightly sad music and then *bam* Shepard, looking beat up as hell but in uniform and it becomes clear that this is Anderson's funeral. With the Shepard Reaper ending it cuts to the love interest turning around and seeing a single Sovereign type Reaper that is still on Earth that then slowly rises into the sky.

Final scene is the Normandy flying into the sunset over Earth with a reprise of the main Mass Effect theme.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2012, 08:05:51 pm by Ace »
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Wow, that's....****ing awesome.

 

Offline LHN91

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
..........Agreed.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: ME3 : Let's make our own ending [SPOILERS]
Of course, this logic has several flaws. First of which is the base assumption that synthetic life will inevitably destroy organic life.

Eventually, conflict is inevitable.
Competition and expansion will see to that.




***

And if oyu want a better ME ending, get rid of hte stupid Crucible/Gardian.
Citadel alive? Citadel a master controller for reapers? WTF?? And they leave it for 50.000 years in the hands of organics????
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