[Flipside]

Yup, and members of the BNP have been arrested for it.

For example, you can say 'I don't trust Islam, it's a religion that promotes violence', that's an acceptable statement under UK law, what you cannot say is 'We should kick all of those smelly Muslim sand n...... out' *

I suppose it's kind of like the Forum guidelines, be abusive for the sake of the abuse and you'll be looking at repercussions.



* Neither of these are intended as a statement of personal belief and are given for example purposes only.

[swashmebuckle]

If someone made a punk rock or rap song or a painting out of this guys words would they go to jail too?

[BlueFlames]

There comes a point where the law should not be used as a substitute for personal discretion.

[Flipside]

If someone made a punk rock or rap song or a painting out of this guys words would they go to jail too?

I suspect it would depend on presentation and delivery.

Take, for example, the concern over the Californian self-defense law and the problems that has caused recently (look up Trayvon Martin if you haven't heard of it). Sometimes laws that are created with good intentions can be misused, over-used or misinterpreted, sometimes good old fashioned common-sense has to come into the equation at some point. And like the US with its Gun laws, remember you are dealing with a country that sets great stock in politeness, even though that is on the decline. That's not about politeness being right or wrong, same as its not about guns being good or bad, but we perceive things differently in both cases, so it's as much about the social make-up of the country involved as the perceived boundaries that people can or cannot cross.

[NGTM-1R]

Take, for example, the concern over the Californian self-defense law and the problems that has caused recently (look up Trayvon Martin if you haven't heard of it).

Florida.

California would have arrested the guy already.

[Flipside]

Take, for example, the concern over the Californian self-defense law and the problems that has caused recently (look up Trayvon Martin if you haven't heard of it).

Florida.

California would have arrested the guy already.

Oops, yup, it's Miami Dade/Broward area, which I know is in Florida, 4am strikes again :/

[swashmebuckle]

If someone made a punk rock or rap song or a painting out of this guys words would they go to jail too?

I suspect it would depend on presentation and delivery.

This whole business makes me think of A Clockwork Orange.  I spent a semester studying art in London as an undergrad, so I do have an inkling of what I think you're getting at regarding the culture of politeness.  There certainly seems to be a greater sensitively in the UK to the balancing act between personal responsibility/common sense and the neutering of free speech on a national scale.  It's interesting though how the decision to prosecute this douche (pardon my French) sort of casts him in a heroic light.  I bet the BNP loves it when stuff like this happens.

[karajorma]

Yeah, but we get revenge on them for that by making them have to accept black people.

[swashmebuckle]

Now that's awesome.  Has anyone joined for virtuous trolling purposes?  There's gotta be a Borat type episode in there somewhere

[redsniper]

Holy ****! If I'm reading this right, you guys had a whites-only political party all the way until 2009.

[FireSpawn]

Now that's awesome.  Has anyone joined for virtuous trolling purposes?  There's gotta be a Borat type episode in there somewhere

I was seriously considering doing just that. As not only a "black" person, but one of dual heritage, it'd drive them up the bloody wall!

But then I realised that trolling in real life has a larger chance of me ending up with an arrow to the knee, so I resolved to stick to the net. Easier lulz.

[Nuke]

i am so goddamn tired of the race card.  even if race truly IS the motivating factor instead of the victim just being a minority, crimes are crimes and race is no worse a reason than any other to commit them.

this.

[Luis Dias]

This is bonkers. Anyone should be free to say awful things like this... and then everyone else should be free to call them a colossal asshole for it.

QFT

[General Battuta]

i am so goddamn tired of the race card.  even if race truly IS the motivating factor instead of the victim just being a minority, crimes are crimes and race is no worse a reason than any other to commit them.

the idea is that crimes selectively targeting a specific disadvantaged group (those with a history of being targeted) are more damaging because you have

[negative effects of the crime on the individual]

and

[reinforcement of the targeted status of the group as a whole]

the idea is that if you go out and shoot someone at random, that's bad, and everyone is afraid of being shot. but if you go out and say 'i hate black people' and shoot a black person, you've targeted a specific group and black people in particular are going to know that crazy people are after them. ymmv as to whether this reasoning works for you, but it's at least supported by some empirical lab work

[FireSpawn]

What if I was to shoot a person while declaring my unending hatred for humans?

[Dragon]

IMHO, we can't really be talking about "equal rights" as long, as minorities are getting privileges. I don't think anybody would talk about racial hatred if that guy attacked a white person, even if it was on racist grounds. Similarly, have you ever heard of female chauvinism being mentioned?
Tipping the inequality from one side to the other isn't making it any better, it only affects different people.

[headdie]

What if I was to shoot a person while declaring my unending hatred for humans?

then we will find you a bed in a nice secure hospital while you undergo psychiatric treatment.  if you manage to be "cured" beforwe the end of your sentence then we will screw you up again by finding you a nice prison cell

[General Battuta]

What if I was to shoot a person while declaring my unending hatred for humans?

the idea is that since the probability of being targeted is 1/[all available humans] rather than 1/[subset of humans] you are less of a danger to any given individual - though you are obviously still supremely dangerous.

there's another layer in that someone may be more likely to act on hatred of a specific outgroup because it's easy to dehumanize those who are different. we might expect hate crimes to be more easily rationalized and more likely to propagate, because hatred of specific outgroups, and specific reasons to act against these outgroups, is more common than hatred of humanity as a whole.

IMHO, we can't really be talking about "equal rights" as long, as minorities are getting privileges. I don't think anybody would talk about racial hatred if that guy attacked a white person, even if it was on racist grounds. Similarly, have you ever heard of female chauvinism being mentioned?
Tipping the inequality from one side to the other isn't making it any better, it only affects different people.

this is a very active field of research and discussion and there aren't any clear answers yet, but racial hatred is definitely talked about when white people are attacked, people are convicted of hate crimes for attacks on white people, and sexism definitely cuts both ways

i think the takeaway here is that 'the issue is very complicated'

[FireSpawn]

What if I was to shoot a person while declaring my unending hatred for humans?

then we will find you a bed in a nice secure hospital while you undergo psychiatric treatment.  if you manage to be "cured" beforwe the end of your sentence then we will screw you up again by finding you a nice prison cell

Sounds like more trouble than it's worth, besides, I already hate vasudans with a passion.
Anyway, most of you are humans and I'd feel a little sad when it came to exterminating you.

[Flipside]

I wouldn't be waving banners about it either...