[TrashMan]

It's about maintaining a non-creepy, non-threatening atmosphere. A bunch of guys casually dropping rape all over the place suggests to newcomers that HLP is:

1) full of neckbeards who have never really interacted with or empathized with women

2) probably not going to be very aggressive about stamping out creeps

now granted this is a 75% accurate impression butttttttttttt

I call BS.
If using the word "rape" is considered threateneing and insensitive to women (because only women can get raped?), then I question the sanity of those who feel that way.

Also, dark comedy/humor. Has been in use by humanity since it's begining. There's of course a line between funny and disgusting, but this doesn't come even close.

And yes, I do consider murder a million time worse than rape. Dead people have no life to pick up. And hypno-therapy (or thearpy of any kind) can't help them.


I don't get it why this bothers you so much or wy you feel this warranted so much discussion, but I don't really care.

[General Battuta]

but I don't really care.

tell me more about not caring

[Flipside]

I find that comedy involving the word 'rape' is generally used by male comics, because male rape, whilst just as damaging and violating as female rape, is far less common.

I don't find the use of the word to describe being 'vastly overpowered' very tasteful, but it is a growing trend that is becoming more accepted. 10 years ago, jokes of the Frankie Boyle ilk would never have been allowed on public TV, and that's from someone who is a fan of Frankie Boyle, he is merely a product of the 'shock tactic' media that is a growing trend.

Rape is a horrific and brutal act that can leave a person scarred physically and emotionally for the rest of their lives, I don't think something like losing a computer game spectacularly even comes close.

In some ways 'Rape' is the new 'Gay', people become numb to the meaning of it, and throw it around far too casually and often under entirely the wrong definition but the same meaning. I do not think it will stop, which is a pity, because by making the phrase 'acceptable' to use in other definitions, I think it sets a dangerous trend.

[The E]

Unlike Murder, which is dished out without regard to gender, rape is a crime with predominantly female victims. I know that this is hard for you to understand, TrashMan, but women do have feelings, and a forum where a prominent member (a global moderator, even!) can have a signature with the phrase RAPERAPERAPE in it without being called on it, or someone like you is posting about how rape is not _that_ bad is not quite as welcoming a place as it should be. I know, I didn't call the offending moderator on this either, making me just another example of the way that casual misogyny can fly under the radar on sites such as this, but should that really be an excuse to not start raising the issue once you've been made aware of it?

There's already one member of this board who has cut her ties with it over issues like these, and we are lessened for it. There are without a doubt other potential members who have looked at our site, and our posting habits and have said "no, thanks."
Converting a board such as this into a place where people are welcome regardless of gender is a hard task, but one I believe to be worthwhile.

[General Battuta]

THREAD ROAD MAP

-men get raped too

-women need to be less sensitive!

-if i can't say rape, that's a violation of my ~free speech~ (the reddit maneuver)

-murder is a lot worse than rape because if you get murdered you're dead

-can't we just have a sense of humor any more

-i'm so tired of this political correctness bull**** that requires me to consider my privilege and the mental states of others

-beep beep boop

I'll take bets now for which one comes up first

[Spoon]

Both viewpoints have merit.

I agree with Battuta that throwing around words like "faggot" "rape" "nigger" and likewise, will make you appear immature.
On the other hand I do agree with Trashman that it's silly to make such big deal about political correct usage of words.

When someone tells me that his team got 'raped' by the enemy team. I know that he means that his team got brutally slaughtered and murdered. Not non-consensually ****ed in the butt.
Likewise, when he tells me that he got '****ed over' by one of his team mates, I will understand that his team mate was so grossly incompetent that he dragged his whole team down. Not that he non-consensually ****ed his team in the butt.

I've seen you use the word ****, Battuta. Why is this word acceptable for you but rape is not?

(This topic reminds me of the hilarious drama of the penny arcade Dickwolves  )

[The E]

-can't we just have a sense of humor any more

I was going to bet on this, but I think Spoon's post already qualifies?

[Spoon]

I don't think it does.
What I'm trying to get at that its about context. That the meaning of the word 'rape' is different depending on its usage. Just like '****' is.
I'm not saying that actual rape is funny. What I found funny about the dickwolves was the massively overblown drama that followed because of a simple webcomic.

[General Battuta]

Both viewpoints have merit.

I agree with Battuta that throwing around words like "faggot" "rape" "nigger" and likewise, will make you appear immature.
On the other hand I do agree with Trashman that it's silly to make such big deal about political correct usage of words.

When someone tells me that his team got 'raped' by the enemy team. I know that he means that his team got brutally slaughtered and murdered. Not non-consensually ****ed in the butt.
Likewise, when he tells me that he got '****ed over' by one of his team mates, I will understand that his team mate was so grossly incompetent that he dragged his whole team down. Not that he non-consensually ****ed his team in the butt.

I've seen you use the word ****, Battuta. Why is this word acceptable for you but rape is not?

(This topic reminds me of the hilarious drama of the penny arcade Dickwolves  )

That's a good question and like almost everything in this debate doesn't have any easy answer.

I make my decisions about what I'm comfortable with based on utility. I spend a ton of time with women - most of my best friends are women active in traditionally male fields like programming, science, and SF/F writing. They're all pretty tough and they've spent a lot of time on the internet.

When they start to feel uncomfortable, it's usually because a phrase, or a word, or a running joke is based on the implicit assumption that the audience is entirely male. A lot of women find kitchen jokes and rape jokes ****ing hilarious, but they're still uncomfortable with them because they seem to reinforce norms that are problems for them: for example, the norm of male competence in computer science means a lot of women miss out on promotions and raises, or have to deal with constant sexual harassment.

There's the idea of what's called a 'chilling effect' -- that women can't speak up about what makes them feel marginalized or ignored because they want to fit in and get along. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect_%28law%29)

So, to bring this back to the topic at hand: I don't think '****' is a problem because everybody gets ****ed. I think 'rape' is a problem not simply because of what the word means but because of the whole complex women have to deal with: rape culture in real life, the assumption of masculinity on the internet, the 'boys club' nature of communities like this, the norm of sexual harassment in said communities. Using the word 'rape' casually is like throwing up a flag which says 'rape isn't a big deal for me. I don't have to worry about it. It's a lot like being beaten in a video game.' Is '****' also problematic? Yeah, maybe. I haven't thought about it enough.

In short: I trust women, I don't think they're hysterical or overreactive, and if they start to - cautiously, in many cases, afraid of causing drama - express a little discomfort, I prefer to listen.

I had a friend recently who came to play in our BSG board game group. She had a fantastic time and everyone enjoyed her - she was a talented player and very friendly. Afterwards, she said to me: 'that was fun, but really, did they need to use 'rape' so often? Every time it came out I remembered I was the only woman at the table.' If she hadn't confided in me, no one would have known; and if she were a rape survivor, or the friend of one, we would've been triggering those memories every time it happened.

[TrashMan]

tell me more about not caring

About you? Not in the least.

I don't find the use of the word to describe being 'vastly overpowered' very tasteful, but it is a growing trend that is becoming more accepted.

Vastly overpowered? Heard it used for that, but the context of use is usually hurt in a really bad way. Or an action that ruins something irrevocably.
Examepl: "Lucas raped my childhood memories!"

At the end of the day it's just a word. A stirng of letter. There's an old saying: "stick and stones can break my bones, but words cannot hurt me".

Unlike Murder, which is dished out without regard to gender, rape is a crime with predominantly female victims. I know that this is hard for you to understand, TrashMan, but women do have feelings, and a forum where a prominent member (a global moderator, even!) can have a signature with the phrase RAPERAPERAPE in it without being called on it, or someone like you is posting about how rape is not _that_ bad is not quite as welcoming a place as it should be.

E, I couldn't care les if you were President of the world. And I care even less for your patronizing and implying I'm insensitive and don't understand women have feelings. And being a women makes precious little difference, statisticly. Unless you want to claim that every women must be insulted by that usage because they are more likely to get raped?
Plenty of things aren't nice. Prostate cancer aint nice. Does that mean that any prostate-cancer related joke, comparion or worb usage must be banned? Hell, for all you know I may have prostate cancer.
Or if you want to talk about murder - there was a war in my country recently. I've seen things. Do you think seeing aquaintances and friends killed scars you for life? Do you see me looking down on anyone who ever mentions the world murder/kill? How abut comedic violence?

And yes rape isn't _that_ bad. I said it. And I will say it agian. Becasue it objectively isn't. I'm sure the victim of rape naturally doesn't feel that way (I'm sure plenty of people don't feel that way), but I'm also sure the victim of murder or any kind of abuse wouldn't feel the same either. Except victims of murders can't complain about it.


You speak about a welcoming place, but a place where poeple overreact and turn into Grammar (and other kinds) of natzi's is equally unwelcoming.

[Polpolion]

And yes rape isn't _that_ bad.

I'm sure the victim of rape naturally doesn't feel that way

lulz wtf am i reading lol i dunno derp beep beep boop

[Flipside]

But Lucas didn't 'rape your childhood', that's the whole point, your childhood happened years ago and was long in the past when the prequels came out, so it is not an accurate phrase at all. Your childhood is intact and unblemished, it's only the present that was so offensive. It's exactly what I mean by misuse of the word.

[General Battuta]

And yes rape isn't _that_ bad. I said it. And I will say it agian. Becasue it objectively isn't.

oh okay i hadn't realized

i'm glad we have someone objective here to cut through all those hysterical wailing women

[TrashMan]

-i'm so tired of this political correctness bull**** that requires me to consider my privilege and the mental states of others

It goes both ways. It's not uncommon to go trough life and hear thing you do not want, things that are you personal berserk bottun or things you find offensive.
Yet it's not my right to deman other to change their speech patterns and their behaviors just to appease my tender sensibilities. Other people don't walk around on eggshells for me. And I don't expect them too.

Discomfort is common. I'm feeling discomfort 90% of the friggin day.
You deal with it. The more you dwell on it, the more it will linger.

[General Battuta]

colon cancer: it's a lot like rape. i was raped by my colon cancer. i was also raped when people told me to stop saying 'rape'. it felt like having a tent peg put into my ass. it was uncomfortable. i feel discomfort 90% of the day now. these situations are objectively all very similar.

[MP-Ryan]

When someone tells me that his team got 'raped' by the enemy team. I know that he means that his team got brutally slaughtered and murdered. Not non-consensually ****ed in the butt.

Hold up.

What you have just illustrated is that when someone uses the word 'rape' in the context of a result of a game, they aren't actually referring to the denotative meaning of the term 'rape,' which shoots the argument that TrashMan is making that he's using the word in its correct meaning right through the foot.

Here's the thing that the anti-political-correctness crowd frequently fails to get (and keep in mind I don't care for the vast majority of PC bull**** out there, but there's an important distinction to be made):

When you use language, it has both connotative and denotative meanings.  For example, the denotative meaning of 'gay' is happy, or homosexual.  The contextual connotative meaning of someone saying "that's gay" is that they are actually saying "that's stupid/ridiculous."  This is one of the ways language is used to alter public sentiment or subvert language to express a politicized meaning.  The common modern usage (among the young and the immature) of the word 'rape' when someone says "I hope I don't get raped at [game/activity/etc]" is to mean "I hope I don't fail / become a victim / lose /etc."  It's taking a word that has a horrific meaning and repurposing it to lessen the actual nature of the acts it denotatively describes, marginalizing a victimized population even further.

I know that sounds like a lot of sociological/psychological drivel, but language is a tool used for communicating hidden as well as overt meanings, and the speed with which particular forms of language are adopted by younger generations often means a term or phrase enters common usage with a meaning it never had, and loses or alters its denotative meaning.  The fact that people are willing to use the word "rape" to describe the outcome of a video game knowing full well that it actually refers to one of if not the most despicable and horrific acts one person can perpetrate on another (and gender doesn't really enter into this, other than to say that most documented cases are male on female) is a pretty good commentary on how meaning gets subverted to minimize acts that some segments of the population condone or at least do not condemn.

Meaning is important.  Many people aren't careful with how they convey it, particularly young people who are just learning this lesson.  This is why it's important for younger forumites like Titan to receive that feedback in a constructive way rather than reach their twenties and thirties and figure out that every reasonable person around them thinks they're a complete and total asshole because of the way they use language.  Again, meaning doesn't just convey opinion, but it lets other people form opinion of the person who is conveying the meanining - hence why the usage of the word rape in this context makes me say that anyone doing it is childish, immature, disrespectful, or all of the above.

Unfortunately, this is a point that seems to be sailing right by TrashMan repeatedly.  It really doesn't upset me that you feel the need to use the word 'rape' in that context, but it does make me form my own judgements about the type of person you are based on the way you communicate.  This is more and more important as people put more about themselves on the Internet - other people are not just attuned to the meaning you convey, but also the way in which you convey it.

[TrashMan]

I had a friend recently who came to play in our BSG board game group. She had a fantastic time and everyone enjoyed her - she was a talented player and very friendly. Afterwards, she said to me: 'that was fun, but really, did they need to use 'rape' so often? Every time it came out I remembered I was the only woman at the table.' If she hadn't confided in me, no one would have known; and if she were a rape survivor, or the friend of one, we would've been triggering those memories every time it happened.

In other words, she is reminded she is a woman by the word rape? Soo...what is the problem with being a woman? Your friend almost sounds like she's ashamed she is one.
Unless she was raped, I'd say the problem is with her, not the word.

i'm glad we have someone objective here to cut through all those hysterical wailing women

And I'm sure if dead men coudl talk, you'd have to deal with all the hysterical wailing men (and women...murder more equal opportunity).

But if you claim that it cannot be objectively measured..then you can't claim the contrary either.

[Quanto]

Here is my explanation as to why Rape is a perfectly useful description for getting your ass kicked in a game.

Rape in a videogame is when:
You get your ass handed to you so badly that you feel HUMILIATED AND VIOLATED ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

Just like real rape.

And so, Rape, when used in the context of say "League of Legends" (which is an exercise of misery in itself), is perfectly acceptable. Because no other word brings the same mental imagery as Rape when you get utterly destroyed by 4-5 enemy players at the same time and your teammates are no where to be seen to save your ass from the coming humiliation and violation.

[StarSlayer]

You can never win a game of tennis against a wall.  You might serve up some great shots but the wall doesn't care, its a wall.

[General Battuta]

Here is my explanation as to why Rape is a perfectly useful description for getting your ass kicked in a game.

Rape in a videogame is when:
You get your ass handed to you so badly that you feel HUMILIATED AND VIOLATED ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

Just like real rape.

I don't think losing a video game is anything 'just like real rape'. It's not something which is a source of enormous shame for both men and women, or something with thousands of years of history, or something that we learn from a young age is a good reason for suicide or self-immolation.

Don't get me wrong, I've used the term too, but I think it's important to think about it and what you're actually saying: 'I'm so unconcerned about rape that it's about as important to me as losing a video game.' That's not a privilege women have.

having to play league of legends is pretty bad though i'll give you that