[General Battuta]

I think it's pretty juvenile to try and prevent people from making fun of you. It's something you learn when you grow up. Personally, I think most children figure it out when they find out that it mostly eggs people on. Looking at Arabs as culturally underdeveloped, wouldn't this be the best way for them to learn it? It's the same way everybody else has learned it.

I think the question will be whether or not the reasonable arabs see it as hateful or merely a reaction to a bunch of radicals. How will the trolling be presented to them? Personally, I found most of the pictures to be amusing.

Muslims are not Arabs in the sense of the two sets mapping perfectly

[NGTM-1R]

Go into a bar of any kind and call everyone inside a mother ****ing faggot.

Come on people, we've been over this point...god I don't even know. I know I've been over it in this thread at least three times on my own. The horse about it being insulting is dead. We resurrected it. We killed the zombie. We burned the corpse. The ghost showed up so we exorcised it.

Nobody is presenting an argument for why it should be considered the same thing to back their assertions it is. If we could maybe ban the next person who equates drawing any possible image of the Prophet with verbal insults and doesn't offer some kind of supporting argument for why that makes sense, we might make some progress here.

[Bobboau]

somehow I'm not comfortable with the idea of banning someone for saying something you don't want them to say...

[jg18]

I think it's pretty juvenile to try and prevent people from making fun of you. It's something you learn when you grow up. Personally, I think most children figure it out when they find out that it mostly eggs people on. Looking at Arabs as culturally underdeveloped, wouldn't this be the best way for them to learn it? It's the same way everybody else has learned it.

I think the question will be whether or not the reasonable arabs see it as hateful or merely a reaction to a bunch of radicals. How will the trolling be presented to them? Personally, I found most of the pictures to be amusing.

Muslims are not Arabs in the sense of the two sets mapping perfectly

Indeed, there are many Muslims who are not Arab, such as Muslims from Iran or South or Southeast Asia, for example. And there are Arabs who are not Muslims, such as Arab Christians.

Go into a bar of any kind and call everyone inside a mother ****ing faggot.

Come on people, we've been over this point...god I don't even know. I know I've been over it in this thread at least three times on my own. The horse about it being insulting is dead. We resurrected it. We killed the zombie. We burned the corpse. The ghost showed up so we exorcised it.

Nobody is presenting an argument for why it should be considered the same thing to back their assertions it is. If we could maybe ban the next person who equates drawing any possible image of the Prophet with verbal insults and doesn't offer some kind of supporting argument for why that makes sense, we might make some progress here.

Drawing an image of Muhammad is analogous to verbal insults in that the motive for doing so is to offend others. What might a respectful or otherwise inoffensive depiction of Muhammad look like, and what would be the artist's motive for creating and disseminating it if not to be offensive?

[NGTM-1R]

Drawing an image of Muhammad is analogous to verbal insults in that the motive for doing so is to offend others. What might a respectful or otherwise inoffensive depiction of Muhammad look like, and what would be the artist's motive for creating and disseminating it if not to be offensive?

This is where it falls apart. Muhammad is a historical figure. His life and his actions are a part of the historical record; unlike Jesus or Buddha, who are difficult to provide good historical evidence of and who left little trace to mark their steps, Muhammad's life and times are imminently important in understanding the history of the Arabian Peninsula. Depicting him is, as such, entirely possible to be educational, nationalistic, inspirational or negative propaganda both, or simply a personal tribute by the artist to a man who left an exile, returned a conquering hero, and founded one of the world's greatest religions.

The depiction of the two pivotal events in the existence of early Islam, the flight to Medina and the return to Mecca, could be any or all of the above things.

[Bobboau]

and may Shiva help you if you decide to make a critical documentary about him.

[stinkyFeet]

I think it's pretty juvenile to try and prevent people from making fun of you. It's something you learn when you grow up. Personally, I think most children figure it out when they find out that it mostly eggs people on. Looking at Arabs as culturally underdeveloped, wouldn't this be the best way for them to learn it? It's the same way everybody else has learned it.

I think the question will be whether or not the reasonable arabs see it as hateful or merely a reaction to a bunch of radicals. How will the trolling be presented to them? Personally, I found most of the pictures to be amusing.

Muslims are not Arabs in the sense of the two sets mapping perfectly

Indeed, there are many Muslims who are not Arab, such as Muslims from Iran or South or Southeast Asia, for example. And there are Arabs who are not Muslims, such as Arab Christians.

"Islamic traditions include a number of instances in which the Prophet had the opportunity to retaliate against those who abused him, but refrained from doing so. He said, "You do not do evil to those who do evil to you, but you deal with them with forgiveness and kindness." "

Muslim is the wrong word too. I chose brevity over precision.

[666maslo666]

Go into a bar of any kind and call everyone inside a mother ****ing faggot. 

Different thing, insulting a person vs. insulting an ideology. And still, law and morality is firmly on the side of the one who insults in such case.

And if in that bar there is a bunch of extremists who would advocate death or harsh legal punishments for calling someone a mother****ing faggot (as numerous muslim extremists do), then yes. It is almost our moral obligation to do it.

[Polpolion]

And still, law and morality is firmly on the side of the one who insults in such case.

wat. Since when is it morally and legally acceptable to go into a bar and call everyone a mother****ing faggot?

[stinkyFeet]

Gah, can we all just assume that that was a terrible analogy and move on? Drunks deserve a different set of rules entirely and even your average "Biker" should know better than to feed trolls on the internet by now.

[Polpolion]

my issue wasn't with the analogy, my issue was with what he said.

[Bobboau]

it is illegal to go into a bar and call everyone a mother****ing faggot?

[Sandwich]

A Muslim, a Jew, and a Christian walk into a bar...

[Polpolion]

it is illegal to go into a bar and call everyone a mother****ing faggot?

Depends on where you are and the manner in which you do it.

[Aardwolf]

@Bobboau: I believe it is illegal to commit suicide, therefore yes.

[Bobboau]

Depends on where you are and the manner in which you do it.

I am in New York City, I walk into a bar and either 1) yell at the top of my lungs "everyone in here is a mother****ing faggot!" or 2) walk up to every individual person and say in a stern tone "you are a mother****ing faggot!" and then walk away. let us assume for the sake of argument that for #2 I do it quickly enough that the owners don't see me doing it enough fast enough to tell me to leave their property before I get to the last person. have I broken a law?

[watsisname]

No, you just act like a complete ****wit and probably get knocked unconscious.

[swashmebuckle]

If it was a gay bar you might get some laughs.  But can't you get tossed in jail for the night on harassment/disturbing the peace/drunk & disorderly type charges, even without the hate speech?

[Polpolion]

I am in New York City, I walk into a bar and either 1) yell at the top of my lungs "everyone in here is a mother****ing faggot!" or 2) walk up to every individual person and say in a stern tone "you are a mother****ing faggot!" and then walk away. let us assume for the sake of argument that for #2 I do it quickly enough that the owners don't see me doing it enough fast enough to tell me to leave their property before I get to the last person. have I broken a law?

But can't you get tossed in jail for the night on harassment/disturbing the peace/drunk & disorderly type charges, even without the hate speech?

Disturbing the peace laws are one of those things where you're only really breaking the law if someone cares enough to bother reporting you; it's the kind of thing to prevent people from being annoying ****wits. If everyone's cool with your behavior, you're not really disturbing the peace, are you?

Anyway, those points aside, if you're shouting "you're all mother****ing faggots" in public there is something wrong with you.

[General Battuta]

If it was a gay bar you might get some laughs.  But can't you get tossed in jail for the night on harassment/disturbing the peace/drunk & disorderly type charges, even without the hate speech?

I wanna take you to a gay bar.

Let's start a war. A nuclear war. At the gay bar.