[Hades]

Subspace node confusion
The tech room in FS1 states that only ships outfitted with the most powerful of reactors could open an intersystem subspace portal (like an Orion destroyer). By "opening the portal", does it mean that the Orion-like ship is needed to open a new intersystem node for general use (as a one-time activation), or that only a ship with an Orion's power output could actually make an intersystem jump?

And did any of that change, and if so, when? Sorry for the complexity here; I'm just really confused on this one.

I don't know about the orion or typhon but i think it was stated somewhere that the lucifer has the ability to stabilize nodes temporarily, all at the cost of plot holes.

No.. I don't belive it was.

[SaltyWaffles]

It's pretty clear from the tech description of the Harbinger that the GTA was willing to use salted nuclear weapons (weapons designed for maximum fallout) on colonies. So things got rather ugly for the contested systems...

I'm really skeptical on that. Not so much what you're saying (I vaguely remember those implications too), but the whole idea. It makes as little sense as possible. If it's a contested system, then why are you contaminating habitable planets with as much radiation as possible--stuff that lasts thousands of years in many cases? What's the point of that? Using cleaner nukes would be more efficient and still leave you with a planet in much better condition after use.

[Alex Heartnet]

I don't know about the orion or typhon but i think it was stated somewhere that the lucifer has the ability to stabilize nodes temporarily, all at the cost of plot holes.

No.. I don't belive it was.

From the command briefing for the FS2 mission "Their Finest Hour":

Skeptics have argued the Shivans made intersystem jumps without using nodes in Ross 128, Ikeya, Vega, and other systems at the outbreak of the Great War. However, scientists assure us this plan will work. Though Shivans have used uncharted nodes and nodes too unstable for Terran and Vasudan vessels, they are as dependent on jump nodes as we are. Nevertheless, we must accept this strategy as nothing more than a temporary measure....

The Freespace Wiki also has an entire article on the jump node inconsistencies within the official continuity.  Plot holes, indeed.

[MatthTheGeek]

Being able to use nodes too unstable for GTVA tech != outright stabilizing jump nodes.

[qwadtep]

If memory serves the FS1 ending monologue mentioned that the Shivans have the ability to rebuild nodes, and with the Shivans' demonstrated subspace superiority and the presence of multiple Knossos portals in the nebula, I can't think of any reason to assume otherwise.

[MatthTheGeek]

Err... Knossoses are Ancient devices. I don't see how their presence is in any way related to the Shivans' abilities to "rebuild" nodes or not.

If anything, it should serve as an indication that they can't, since they seem to have to rely on those Knossosses despite having eliminated nearly all other trace of the Ancient civilization.

[NGTM-1R]

Rely on them seems a pretty strong description. They never reacted to them at all. From what we see in-game, it's hard to be sure the Shivans are even aware of the Knossos.

[qwadtep]

Err... Knossoses are Ancient devices. I don't see how their presence is in any way related to the Shivans' abilities to "rebuild" nodes or not.

If anything, it should serve as an indication that they can't, since they seem to have to rely on those Knossosses despite having eliminated nearly all other trace of the Ancient civilization.

Because if the GTVA, with their limited subspace ability, is feasibly capable of rebuilding the Knossos after studying it for less than a year, the Shivans almost certainly can after ten thousand.

[headdie]

Err... Knossoses are Ancient devices. I don't see how their presence is in any way related to the Shivans' abilities to "rebuild" nodes or not.

If anything, it should serve as an indication that they can't, since they seem to have to rely on those Knossosses despite having eliminated nearly all other trace of the Ancient civilization.

Because if the GTVA, with their limited subspace ability, is feasibly capable of rebuilding the Knossos after studying it for less than a year, the Shivans almost certainly can after ten thousand.

For the shivans to research it they would have to want to research it in the first place.  And without knowing shivan motives we cant say if that desire was there or not

[FireSpawn]

Shivan motive?

[Alex Heartnet]

Err... Knossoses are Ancient devices. I don't see how their presence is in any way related to the Shivans' abilities to "rebuild" nodes or not.

If anything, it should serve as an indication that they can't, since they seem to have to rely on those Knossosses despite having eliminated nearly all other trace of the Ancient civilization.

Why would the Shivans go through the effort of stabilizing a jump node for their usage, when there is already a Knossos portal there that does that job for them?  Just because they are using already-existing portals doesn't necessarily mean they can't build their own if needed.

Rely on them seems a pretty strong description. They never reacted to them at all. From what we see in-game, it's hard to be sure the Shivans are even aware of the Knossos.

We saw multiple juggernauts utilizing a Knossos Portal in the mission Into the Lion's Den.  Does utilizing the portals qualify as 'reacting to them'?  They already had comm nodes and fighter patrols set up even before the SOC fighters arrived.

In fact, it's implied that there might be a whole bunch of Knossos Portals beyond the nebula.

[Legate Damar]

It seems for these questions we just have to make up our own theories.

[QuantumDelta]

That's not entirely true alex, if you regard the portals as simply attachments to existing inter-system nodes the shivans may well be regarded as ignoring them. The only flaw in that theory is potentially whether or not they 'reacted' to the activation of the one that leads to the nebula, or whether they reacted to the passage of the Trinity through it.

NGTM; My comments before were because your post was somewhat ambiguous in the lack of a couple of thoughts, clarified in your reply to my post.

[NGTM-1R]

We saw multiple juggernauts utilizing a Knossos Portal in the mission Into the Lion's Den.  Does utilizing the portals qualify as 'reacting to them'?

Knossos portals are a second-order effect. You don't even need to know the Knossos exists to make use of it: remember, they don't exist in linked pairs and one end of the connection is by all appearances a standard subspace node. The portal stabilizes the node and you actually use the node, not the portal.

Since we know pretty much nothing about Shivan behavior and perception, whether they're aware of or care about Knossos portals as such is impossible to ascertain. They never directly interacted with one.

[BengalTiger]

[

Rely on them seems a pretty strong description. They never reacted to them at all. From what we see in-game, it's hard to be sure the Shivans are even aware of the Knossos.

We saw multiple juggernauts utilizing a Knossos Portal in the mission Into the Lion's Den.  Does utilizing the portals qualify as 'reacting to them'?

They use the subspace node, that's all we know for sure.
They don't have to know it's not a natural one, created by the Knossos device- in which case the big question is who sponsored their fleet...?

I'd personally say they're not only aware of the device, but also do all maintenance to keep it in working order...
Somebody most likely has to, those things are pieces of junk older than anyone can remember.

[headdie]

[

Rely on them seems a pretty strong description. They never reacted to them at all. From what we see in-game, it's hard to be sure the Shivans are even aware of the Knossos.

We saw multiple juggernauts utilizing a Knossos Portal in the mission Into the Lion's Den.  Does utilizing the portals qualify as 'reacting to them'?

They use the subspace node, that's all we know for sure.
They don't have to know it's not a natural one, created by the Knossos device- in which case the big question is who sponsored their fleet...?

I'd personally say they're not only aware of the device, but also do all maintenance to keep it in working order...
Somebody most likely has to, those things are pieces of junk older than anyone can remember.

old dont mean it's a piece of junk, after all they do work.  While i contest the shivans using them implies knowledge of maintaining them (we would and do research these things but shivans have a very alien psych so are not forced to have the same curiosity we do) It does bring up the question about how much maintenance Knossos portals need.

[Alex Heartnet]

old dont mean it's a piece of junk, after all they do work.  While i contest the shivans using them implies knowledge of maintaining them (we would and do research these things but shivans have a very alien psych so are not forced to have the same curiosity we do) It does bring up the question about how much maintenance Knossos portals need.

Well, seeing how the Knossos within the nebula apparently managed to survive the supernova that created the nebula, they might be extremely low maintenance.  At least, that was the impression I got on my first play though.

[Mongoose]

Considering you can also apparently flip a switch and turn them on after several millennia of inactivity, I'd say they hold up pretty well.

[jr2]

nano-tech maintenance with fusion / anti-matter / dark energy / what have you as power source and a supply of repair materials that the nano-bots could use?

[General Battuta]

nano-tech maintenance with fusion / anti-matter / dark energy / what have you as power source and a supply of repair materials that the nano-bots could use?

it's like a checklist of SF buzzwords people don't understand