[Mika]

Then what's the difference between Microsoft Surface and something like Acer Aspire Ultrabook? Detachable keyboad and that Ultrabook is already available?

I'm sorry, but this just sounds like marketing hype to me; you are being sold something as new what you could already have at a cheaper price. However, I do reserve the right to be mistaken, so if it works for you, great!

[Mikes]

Then what's the difference between Microsoft Surface and something like Acer Aspire Ultrabook? Detachable keyboad and that Ultrabook is already available?

I'm sorry, but this just sounds like marketing hype to me; you are being sold something as new what you could already have at a cheaper price. However, I do reserve the right to be mistaken, so if it works for you, great!

Don't take me wrong there either. I'm not totally sold on it yet...   

What would be essential for me, of course, would be that:
- Fan noise has to be unobtrusive and heat has to be within sensible limits. (I'm used to business class machines... I do not want to hear the fan. - especially not during a meeting or while I teach. - This usually rules out Acer )
- The pen has to be a Wacom pen or work as good as Wacom pen. (OneNote + Pen is a joy for work/meetings/education in general that I will never want to miss/ It's  a make or break feature for teaching purposes - this of course completely rules out the Acer)
- The battery time matches or exceeds my current Win7 tablet (4-6 hours depending on use)
- build quality/durability has to be above average. (Microsoft, no matter how hard they try, would most likely be a slight step down from my Motion Computing tablet. Acer... no let's no go there... UGH.)

And no it certainly won't be "unique". With Windows 8 release I am sure we will see a slew of similar devices. This one just looks like the best so far.

I.e. it looks like it can compete with Google and Apple for size, style and convenience AND provide a fully functional PC at the same time. If so... I'm definitely sold

[Androgeos Exeunt]

Microsoft introducing a tablet is now breaking an older rule they have held on for a very long time: they have not been competing with the computer hardware manufacturers before. This is a stab in the back for their computer hardware partners, and they will react on this by offering and supporting alternative operating systems. Microsoft knows this also, but they seem to rely on the demand coming from the consumer side, I expect a lot of advertisements and enthusiastic previews coming up for the Surface. And hey, it might be a great piece of technology, but I can't help but to think that Microsoft is now fighting a losing battle in the long term.

The reason is, they are very late for the mobile and do not actually have an ecosystem yet. Android is currently the most sold operating system in the world, even if you count the PCs. While they could get the consumers interested in their stuff, their recent actions have pretty much closed the doors on the mobile side to all directions. They would have to do it all by themselves, starting from relay antennae and ending up to stores for selling that all.

There is still some hope for Microsoft, because they at least acknowledged that more and more people are using tablet computers nowadays and are taking steps to try and claim a share of that market.

Usage of tablet computers in the eastern part of the world is still in its infancy. Even in Singapore, where I live in, most people are still making the transition from desktops to laptop computers, and the transition to a tablet computer is not in full swing yet.

If Microsoft does things right, they will not go in the direction of AdLib in this market.

[Mikes]

Usage of tablet computers in the eastern part of the world is still in its infancy. Even in Singapore, where I live in, most people are still making the transition from desktops to laptop computers, and the transition to a tablet computer is not in full swing yet.

Is there even a "transition" right now? I would highly doubt it. An Android tablet/Ipad simply can't do a fraction of the (rather critical) things a proper computer can.
What I see all around me is people picking up a tablet in addition to their computers - not as a replacement.
Without any solid data to back it either way I would still suggest that it is highly unlikely that people are actually replacing their computers.... with those toys.

Tablets are a growth market (why? Because they are new, everyone wants one, and the market is not saturated like the computer market, doh) - featurewise Android Tablets and Ipads are so limited compared to a proper computer however, that the whole notion of "tablets replacing computers" strikes me as outright ridiculous at this point. People who didn't need a computer before, may get a tablet sure.... but people who needed a computer before... still need a computer, and not one of those toys.


The "Surface Pro" is matter of fact the first device that looks like it could make an actual transition to the 10" tablet format feasible. - and neither Google nor Apple have anything to compete with a 10" tablet computer right now. - "computer" being the keyword here.

With phones that have the same chips, same OS and can run the same software.... what niche will those 10" Ipads and Android tablets fill exactly when we are now getting 10" tablets that are actually fully featured computers sporting I5s and a desktop OS with a fully realized touch interface?

[headdie]

They can make an interesting twist on Server/Termal networks by allowing the user to take the terminal anywhere .

[The E]

I think these things will be big in corporate IT, given that they can be administrated using the same tools as regular Windows Desktop installs.

[Scourge of Ages]

If this thing can do all the things we hope it can, it will truly be the device I've been waiting for for years.

I finally went with a HP2760P, which is excellent, but still not all that portable. If a surface tablet can partially replace that with the portability of an iPad, I will buy one harder than anything else I've ever purchased.

[el_magnifico]

Too long, didn't watch.

As for the ecosystem... the Pro will run fully featured windows applications.
Compared to that... the Ipad or Android ecosystems are not just tiny... they simply can't compete feature wise.
I find it funny that with all the craze about apps and ecosystems and comparing the "number of apps available" like penis sizes ...   few people focus on the rather essential fact that Android or iOS don't have anything to even remotely be able to compete with the professional software suites available for the windows platform. They are childs in grownup country... and right now they get by by being smaller and cuter than the competition.

What's with the constant Android/Linux bashing, mate? You know, when you're sure of what you're doing in your own house you don't need to get your nose in your neighbour's.

Besides, what ecosystem are we talking about here?

Windows on ARM processors (Windows RT) will only support applications included with the system (including some Office 15 desktop applications), supplied through Windows Update, or Metro applications acquired through the Windows Store. Windows on ARM will not support running, emulating, or porting existing x86/64 desktop applications to ensure the quality of apps available on ARM.

So, want an ecosystem? Not in the most popular architecture for smartphones. Sorry.

While Microsoft has made some significant progress since the Vista fiasco, even going as far as finally releasing a good OS with reasonable hardware requirements (hell, I love Win7), they're still almost nonexistent in the mobile market, their dominance in desktop PCs notwithstanding.

[pecenipicek]

am i the only one around here who will still take his WinMo 6.5 "smartphone" over any and all android/i****s these days?

even with non-standard rom's i've rarely had any issues with it. my gf's android on the other hand...

[Mikes]

Too long, didn't watch.

As for the ecosystem... the Pro will run fully featured windows applications.
Compared to that... the Ipad or Android ecosystems are not just tiny... they simply can't compete feature wise.
I find it funny that with all the craze about apps and ecosystems and comparing the "number of apps available" like penis sizes ...   few people focus on the rather essential fact that Android or iOS don't have anything to even remotely be able to compete with the professional software suites available for the windows platform. They are childs in grownup country... and right now they get by by being smaller and cuter than the competition.

What's with the constant Android/Linux bashing, mate? You know, when you're sure of what you're doing in your own house you don't need to get your nose in your neighbour's.

Besides, what ecosystem are we talking about here?

Linux is a fully featured desktop OS. Android is a very limited mobile device OS. The two should not be lumped together.

What Microsoft is doing with the "Surface PRO" is bringing us a fully featured computer, with a fully featured desktop OS,... in 10" tablet format.


Now about "ecosystems". Usually when people talk about ecosystems they usually talk about Android and iOS apps...    it's unusal to talk about "Windows programs" as an ecosystem... but now that we are getting a fully functional computer that is small enough to compete with tablets it becomes glaringly obvious that neither Apples nor Googles "ecosystem" would have a snowflakes chance in hell when people start comparing them to the amount and complexity of programmes available to a full desktop OS.

As said before... in comparison Android and iOS ecosystems are little more than fledgling childs and now someone puts a device out that is about as small as an IPAD or Android Tablet.... but  can actually run "grownup software".


If they can pull it off even just somewhat satisfactory... then as far as I'm concerned, Android and iOS Tablets just became obsolete.
What niche is left for them when you have devices that are comparable in size.... but are actually fullscale computers featurewise?

[Ghostavo]

am i the only one around here who will still take his WinMo 6.5 "smartphone" over any and all android/i****s these days?

even with non-standard rom's i've rarely had any issues with it. my gf's android on the other hand...

I have an old HTC Diamond, but the battery is pretty bad right now. Trying to find a decent phone replacement is kind of hard.

[pecenipicek]

am i the only one around here who will still take his WinMo 6.5 "smartphone" over any and all android/i****s these days?

even with non-standard rom's i've rarely had any issues with it. my gf's android on the other hand...

I have an old HTC Diamond, but the battery is pretty bad right now. Trying to find a decent phone replacement is kind of hard.

heh. mine is still awesome, capable of pulling a full-on week of use, if i'm not ****ing around with wifi too much. (Samsung Omnia i900)

[jr2]

I had a Samsung Omnia SCH-i920 - great phone, but the software had some infuriating bugs. I forget what they are; I have an iPhone 4S now which has its own infuriating habits (but at least doesn't slow down if you don't purge the text messages every few months like the WinMo 6.5 did with its *****y Outlook crap).

Anyways, Next time I'm trying a Droid.

[pecenipicek]

I had a Samsung Omnia SCH-i920 - great phone, but the software had some infuriating bugs. I forget what they are; I have an iPhone 4S now which has its own infuriating habits (but at least doesn't slow down if you don't purge the text messages every few months like the WinMo 6.5 did with its *****y Outlook crap).

Anyways, Next time I'm trying a Droid.

i havent purged text messages since i got the phone 3 years ago... no slowness here

[jr2]

Lucky you.    ... Or maybe I'm just unlucky.  My wife had the exact same model phone and it did the same thing.  Now we're both loving the nifty little features of the iOS, like,
"Oh, you have a call incoming, slide to answer..." 
"...but I want to decline the call!" 
"I'm sorry, your phone was locked when the call was received, so you'll have to either slide to answer, or mute the ringer, and wait until the call is dropped to use your phone again." 
"What?! But I need to catch a snapshot of this moment that's happening just now, before it's gone!" 
"Oh well.  But don't worry.  It's all part of the many benefits of the iExperience.    Enjoy!"

...Which is why we jailbroke our phones.  (Nifty little apps like EZDecline that put the choice back where it belongs - with the user!)  The only downside to that is that if anything goes wrong (to the point where you can't boot the phone) and you have to restore your phone, one of the guaranteed "features" of any iOS software update that you will be forced to install upon doing an iTunes restore is removing any exploit used to jailbreak the previous iOS software.. so you're stuck until the next jailbreak comes out.  There are ways around that (forced iOS upgrade), however, Apple has gotten pretty good at stopping them with their new A5-based devices.

[pecenipicek]

Lucky you.    ... Or maybe I'm just unlucky.  My wife had the exact same model phone and it did the same thing.  Now we're both loving the nifty little features of the iOS, like,
"Oh, you have a call incoming, slide to answer..." 
"...but I want to decline the call!" 
"I'm sorry, your phone was locked when the call was received, so you'll have to either slide to answer, or mute the ringer, and wait until the call is dropped to use your phone again." 
"What?! But I need to catch a snapshot of this moment that's happening just now, before it's gone!" 
"Oh well.  But don't worry.  It's all part of the many benefits of the iExperience.    Enjoy!"

...Which is why we jailbroke our phones.  (Nifty little apps like EZDecline that put the choice back where it belongs - with the user!)  The only downside to that is that if anything goes wrong (to the point where you can't boot the phone) and you have to restore your phone, one of the guaranteed "features" of any iOS software update that you will be forced to install upon doing an iTunes restore is removing any exploit used to jailbreak the previous iOS software.. so you're stuck until the next jailbreak comes out.  There are ways around that (forced iOS upgrade), however, Apple has gotten pretty good at stopping them with their new A5-based devices.

in short, apple sucks, and you and your wife really should've known better? (not that androids are all that better, but on the other hand, cyanogenmod for the devices that are beefy enough to benefit from it...)

[LHN91]

To heck with CyanogenMod "For devices that are beefy enough"...... Put that **** on just about any phone that'll take it. I'm running CyanogenMod 7.2 on an HTC Legend, one of the most bottom end ARM v6 based phones that doesn't even have an official Gingerbread ROM, and even there it takes a frustratingly laggy phone with a lackluster, heavily locked-down stock 2.2 ROM, and adds in a stable 200 Mhz overclock, full DSP stack, smooths out the interface and makes it easy to throw out the nigh-uncustomizable HTC Sense. I had more or less given up on the phone and switched over to a Blackberry 9780 I had given to me when I decided to go ahead and give rooting the thing a try.

[jr2]

in short, apple sucks, and you and your wife really should've known better?

I blame my wife's sister.  And her boyfriend.  We are all on the same plan to save money, and he wanted an iPhone cause she just loved her 3GS, so they got 4Ses.  Then my wife wanted one - it was either that or Android, but I will say this: the iPhone has a very slick interface.  Just woe to those who dare try to customize it (at the very least, Apple will not do you any favors when they release updates).  Apple has a very good product and complete asshole control freaks in charge of it, who hide behind the guise of "preserving the Apple experience" - oh, you mean like your retarded one-button mouse that you finally saw fit to improve?  Which stubborn old geezer finally died/retired to let that decision through?

The thing I hate the most about Apple is .. I guess it goes like this: (relevant part in italics)

There was a little girl, who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead,
And when she was good, she was very, very good,
But when she was bad she was horrid.

She stood on her head, on her little trundle bed,
With nobody by for to hinder;
She screamed and she squalled, she yelled and she bawled,
And drummed her little heels against the winder.

Her mother heard the noise, and thought it was the boys
Playing in the empty attic,
She rushed upstairs, and caught her unawares,
And spanked her, most emphatic.

~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

[Polpolion]

Linux is a fully featured desktop OS. Android is a very limited mobile device OS. The two should not be lumped together.

Now this is just silly.

[jr2]

Pray tell.