[SaltyWaffles]

I'm finally getting around to learning FRED2, and while I've had some initial success, there is one thing that is pretty crippling at the moment: the camera controls.

Simply put, I can't find any way of changing the controls to custom binds, or even alternate configurations. I have the number keys and everything, but I don't have a numpad, and apparently using the 3 (for example) on my keyboard does nothing--I have to push the "3" on my nonexistent number pad. Soo...uh, what do I do here?

This may be an important point, but I've only worked around in the standard FRED2 so far; I haven't opened up the FRED-open version (I wasn't sure if I needed, or even could, use the launcher for that, and I didn't think this would be a problem in the standard version either, at least at first).

That said, it was surprisingly fun/satisfying to take on three Maras with a Herc-II at close range via "FIRE EVERYTHING!"-Rockeye spam.

[mormon_boy]

my solution:
1. go to a thrift store
2. buy a usb keyboard ($1-5)

chances are even if the rest is worn out the key pad should still be in good shape(unless the donater is a civ or freespace fan)

[SaltyWaffles]

1) I'm using a laptop.
2) I think it's more reasonable to expect an option as basic as "Use non-numpad keys for camera control" (or just customizable controls, like the standard FS2 already had) than for me to buy an entire new keyboard so that I could have a set of redundant keys to satisfy an insanely inflexible program.
3) YGTBSM.

[mjn.mixael]

Sorry, you can only control the camera with the numpad. You'll either need to get a USB numpad or full keyboard.

Perhaps there might be a software solution to force keys to act as numpad keys? Not sure, I never looked into it.

While it would be nice to not be tied to a numpad... extensions in this area of FRED probably won't happen until wxFRED gets off the ground.

[SaltyWaffles]

Sorry, you can only control the camera with the numpad. You'll either need to get a USB numpad or full keyboard.

Perhaps there might be a software solution to force keys to act as numpad keys? Not sure, I never looked into it.

While it would be nice to not be tied to a numpad... extensions in this area of FRED probably won't happen until wxFRED gets off the ground.

Wait, what? Granted, I am no programmer, but shouldn't a software workaround within the program itself (FRED2-open) be a relatively simple matter? Or just writing a config file to work with the program, and people needing the workaround would just DL the config file and place it in the right directory?

[mjn.mixael]

Given that you aren't a programmer, you shouldn't make that assumption. I don't know the difficulty of it.. but it's been that way for a decade. My guess is that if it were a simple enough change, it would have happened already.

[mormon_boy]

1. i'm on a laptop to and was already assuming you were on one (my laptop actually has a 97% full keyboard but i still use an external when working at my desk or playing wcsaga/fs2)
2. thrift stores are more fun which serves as a balance against its less reasonableness
3. btw thrift stores are my answer to everything

[MatthTheGeek]

The REAL solution is : buy yourself a REAL computer. Like a boss.

[SaltyWaffles]

The REAL solution is : buy yourself a REAL computer. Like a boss.

1) This IS a real computer, quite so.
2) I can't afford to buy a high-end desktop computer right now.
3) This is like needing a joystick to play FS2.
4) YGTBSM.

[yuezhi]

my advice: deal with it. i did my campaign on a laptop.

though honestly i wish the middle button on my mouse could control the camera instead like blender.

[SaltyWaffles]

my advice: deal with it. i did my campaign on a laptop.

though honestly i wish the middle button on my mouse could control the camera instead like blender.

How exactly would I work around this in any practical way? I have no camera control; the only option I can think of is to create a craft within my POV, orient it in the direction I want, make IT the camera POV, and then figure out how to place a ship way off in the distance before reorienting it to the angle I need, then switching that one to the POV.

[jg18]

Don't forget that FRED2 was created solely for the purpose of allowing to more easily make FS2 than with just Notepad, nothing more. 's inclusion of FRED2 with FS2 is IMO a bigger deal than their release of the FS2 source code (more on that here).

But yes, this is annoying. I'm on a MacBook Pro and I have the same problem, since my USB keyboards are thousands of miles away. I can try to look into this at some point, but mjn is right: if it were easy to change, it probably would have been changed by now.

though honestly i wish the middle button on my mouse could control the camera instead like blender.

Major changes to the controls are best left to wxFRED, even if it might not be ready for years.

[The E]

Any Laptop worth the money will either have a full keyboard, or at the very least overload some of the letter keys to function as numpad keys when num lock is active.

Also, I don't quite get why getting even a cheap USB keyboard is anathema to you. Personally, while I am quite happy with the keyboard built into my laptop (Using a 17" Asus Lappie with a full kb), I will use an external one whenever I can.

EDIT: Oh, and yes. Making FRED's hotkeys configurable is a rather low priority compared to the _other_ things us coders want to do.

[karajorma]

Speaking as a coder who does the vast majority of his FREDding on a laptop (with a fair deal of it on long train journeys) I'll say that looking into allowing other keys to also work has been on my to do list for a while.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Like the E said, any self-respecting laptop has had some numpad emulator since forever. On my rig, it's activated with the [fn] key.

[karajorma]

It's also a pain in the arse to use as it means that other keys stop working. In my case, I often try to open the object editor only to have the view rotate to the right since the numpad 6 is the O key.

More importantly though, who would tell a coder not to add a feature he'd already decided that he was interested in adding without giving any reason beyond "Well you already know another way to do it which you don't think is good enough but you should use it cause I say so"?

[SaltyWaffles]

Any Laptop worth the money will either have a full keyboard, or at the very least overload some of the letter keys to function as numpad keys when num lock is active.

Also, I don't quite get why getting even a cheap USB keyboard is anathema to you. Personally, while I am quite happy with the keyboard built into my laptop (Using a 17" Asus Lappie with a full kb), I will use an external one whenever I can.

EDIT: Oh, and yes. Making FRED's hotkeys configurable is a rather low priority compared to the _other_ things us coders want to do.

It's not quite anathema, it's just ludicrously space-innefficient, and my space is quite limited already.

About the coders' priorities: I totally understand; I was thinking more along the lines that if some kind of simple workaround was relatively easy to do, then quickly getting it done and out of the way might a good course of action. Obviously, I have little idea if that is actually the case. One can hope, I guess.

About the numpad toggle for my laptop--how do I do it, or even check if I have one? If it works, I'd love you guys forever.


EDIT: I have an Fn key, but it seems like a hold-key modifier (like Shift) rather than a toggle. There IS a secondary function labelled on my ScrollLock key that looks like "'NmLk' *upwards arrow with a tiny, flat rectangle on the bottom, and a number 1 inside the arrow itself*". What would that be?

EDIT2: Okay, I think I got it. Sorry for the dumb question. Thank you for the help!

[MatthTheGeek]

Google is your friend.

[mormon_boy]

Google is your friend.

and thrift stores but i am happy you found a solution

[yuezhi]

my advice: deal with it. i did my campaign on a laptop.

though honestly i wish the middle button on my mouse could control the camera instead like blender.

How exactly would I work around this in any practical way? I have no camera control; the only option I can think of is to create a craft within my POV, orient it in the direction I want, make IT the camera POV, and then figure out how to place a ship way off in the distance before reorienting it to the angle I need, then switching that one to the POV.

place some objects at random, hit Alt-R, select single missions for testing and i see my beautiful nebulas from the point of view of a fighter. it's obviously more tedious than rotating in fred, and resetting the backgrounds and object angles is fustrating, but i did it anyways because i don't have a USB keyboard.

i haven't tried using the on-screen keyboard like Woutsmitssm has done in light of his drawbacks. hmm...