Author Topic: we're just mocking them now  (Read 12456 times)

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Offline Bobboau

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Offline Mongoose

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Re: we're just mocking them now
I fully support hacking in the name of blasting pure rock awesomeness.

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Re: we're just mocking them now
Nah na-nah nah na-nah nah nah. Apply your own rhythm - it works on two levels. :D
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: we're just mocking them now
Nah na-nah nah na-nah nah nah. Apply your own rhythm - it works on two levels. :D

Hey hey, good-bye (to your nuclear ambitions).
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Offline bigchunk1

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Re: we're just mocking them now
They should just outsource India for tech support. How are their relations with India anyways... oh wait.
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Zacam: Uh. No, using an effect is okay. But you are literally using the TECHROOM ani as the weapon effect.

 
Re: we're just mocking them now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RukUetw0hAM

read the top comment.

or read this article if you don't like cryptic riddles

As an American, with a Physics degree, I'm calling this a backfire.  I have a sudden desire to work at an Iranian nuclear facility, so that I might be able to rock all night to the malware planted in the local network.  ;)

 
Re: we're just mocking them now
Time for the RIAA to sue the CIA and the AEOI for file sharing.

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: we're just mocking them now
Unfortunately for RIAA, the military will either be unable to confirm or deny using the music, or will simply deny it.

:p
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It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


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Everyone else takes normal damage.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: we're just mocking them now
because denying filesharing stops lawsuits dead in their tracks.
I like to stare at the sun.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: we're just mocking them now
Nice, /me likes.

And, well, who would the RIAA sue?  The DoD as a whole??

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Re: we're just mocking them now
Somehow I can't see the CIA or the Mossad being the source of malware that plays music. It's not in their best interests to basically hold up a neon sign that says, "HEY GUYS, YOU ARE INFECTED, ROCK ON!"

 
Re: we're just mocking them now
Damn! I really would like to know what crosses your mind when you guys read news like this one. USA was the first country to develop nuclear weapons, the only country to use them in combat, the only country to use them TWICE in combat, and the country with the largest, most destructive arsenal. Yet, it is somehow morally acceptable for the USA government to militantly disrupt other country's nuclear research programmes.

  

Offline Mongoose

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Re: we're just mocking them now
What crosses my mind is that I'm (reasonably) sure that we're not gonna use them now at the drop of a hat, and I can't say the same about certain other countries that have them.

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: we're just mocking them now
I think I understand Iran's motives for wanting a nuclear weapon...

Namely, they may be crazy on the political front, but they are not bat-****-crazy like North Korea. Next, with mounting, sustained political pressure from the Western powers, Iran's leaders surely know that if things go truly sour, their military will never stand a chance against the global entities of the world police, or something like that. The only really viable means for them to survive on the political, and thus perhaps even national front, is to either be bullied into doing what the foreign powers want them to, or to bully back with what assumedly amouts to small-scale MAD. A small arsenal is not much, but if you want to deter an attack or invasion, the invader might just do so rather than risk unacceptable amounts of collateral damage.

The question of sanity then comes in the form of them recognizing that having a nuclear weapon or weapons does not make them any safer pushing another power around; in fact, it only makes their position more precarious. I'm not sure they're competant enough to fully understand this latter factor.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 
Re: we're just mocking them now
What crosses my mind is that I'm (reasonably) sure that we're not gonna use them now at the drop of a hat, and I can't say the same about certain other countries that have them.
Really? If there is a belligerent and warlike country in this world, that is the USA. Historically, there have only been two reasons why the USA government has not used nuclear weapons yet (apart from the aforementioned instances): Mutually assured destruction, or there being a more cost effective way.

with mounting, sustained political pressure from the Western powers, Iran's leaders surely know that if things go truly sour, their military will never stand a chance against the global entities of the world police, or something like that.
Yes, but why are Western powers pressuring Iran and other countries around the globe? Their reasons (dangerous attitudes, human rights violations, abuse of power), coming from countries with their past and recent history of massive crimes, bullying, and questionable acts, are NOT valid enough. Sadly, economic interests seem like the only reasonable answer.
And don't take me wrong. We have every reason to dislike Iran.

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The question of sanity then comes in the form of them recognizing that having a nuclear weapon or weapons does not make them any safer pushing another power around; in fact, it only makes their position more precarious.
Judging by the fact that North Korea is still on the map and in their way to develop nuclear weapons despite them being geographically close enough to the USA to easily use them on said country's population, I don't think so.

 
Re: we're just mocking them now
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Yet, it is somehow morally acceptable for the USA government to militantly disrupt other country's nuclear research programmes.

Why ascribe morality to it?  Iran has interests in the Middle East, counter to those of the United States.  Iran will be more capable of acting on its interests, with any sort of nuclear arsenal.  Therefore the United States acts to hinder Iran's nuclear program.  That's the rational actor model, as applied to foreign policy, not morality.

If you do want to map morality to the situation, then the waters get very muddy indeed.  What would Iran do with a nuclear arsenal?  Would the situation in the Middle East be more morally preferable with a nuclear Iran or without a nuclear Iran?  Before answering those questions, don't forget to provide your definition of "morally preferable".

Personally, if I had to cobble together a brief justification for this style of intervention, I would define a morally preferable situation for the Middle East as reducing unnecessary loss of life and increasing the standard of living for the people of the region.  I see a nuclear Iran as being capable of using the threat of its nuclear arsenal to ward off possible attackers, while using its conventional military to further its regional foreign policy goals.  Past precedent and the rhetoric of Iran's leaders indicate that those regional goals include (in no particular order) seizing oil fields along the Iran-Iraq border, the dissolution of the Israeli government, and the installation of Islamic theocracies in the Middle East (actually the world, but even with nukes, Iran doesn't have that kind of reach).  A nuclear Iran could wage conventional war or overtly disrupt ongoing popular uprisings, in order to further those objectives, with less threat of retaliation, due to the looming spectre of a nuclear arsenal, held in reserve.  As warfare causes unnecessary loss of life and theocratic rule negatively correlates to standard of living, a nuclear Iran is therefore less morally preferable to a non-nuclear Iran, and measures taken, short of those that Iran would take, if it were to construct a nuclear arsenal, are morally justified.

Incidentally, it was a slightly different question, but I feel like I've trod this ground recently.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: we're just mocking them now
Historically, there have only been two reasons why the USA government has not used nuclear weapons yet (apart from the aforementioned instances): Mutually assured destruction, or there being a more cost effective way.
You answered the question there yourself.  The US and Russia played the MAD game for decades; they're both intimately familiar with the consequences of the actual use of a nuclear weapon in today's world.  That experience directly led to most of the disarmament activities of the past few decades, and makes the use of a nuclear weapon by either power highly unlikely.  Yes, there was the odd bit of posturing from Bush and Putin and such, but both parties involved understood it as such, and nothing more.  It's in both countries' best interests to make sure the things never get used, and to not have as many of them lying around.

I would love a world completely free of nuclear weapons, but along with getting the existing powers to reduce their stockpiles, there's another core tenet of nonproliferation: making sure that no other states start creating their own stockpiles.  That's reason enough to fire Trojans at Iran.

 

Offline Beskargam

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Re: we're just mocking them now
What crosses my mind is that I'm (reasonably) sure that we're not gonna use them now at the drop of a hat, and I can't say the same about certain other countries that have them.
Really? If there is a belligerent and warlike country in this world, that is the USA. Historically, there have only been two reasons why the USA government has not used nuclear weapons yet (apart from the aforementioned instances): Mutually assured destruction, or there being a more cost effective way.

pretty sure Korea wasn't a more cost effective way, and interestingly enough Truman sacked McArthur for pursuing plans to A-bomb the crap of the far east.

It boils down to "It's not that simple". and please don't generalize America. American Power is like a big hand, but there are many many minds trying to control what direction the hand goes, and those minds certainly don't always agree.

I'm also going to point out that while america has wielded a ton of influence in the past century and a half on the world scale, so did many of the imperial nations, such as Britian, France, Spain, and Germany all at various points. So did the Romans. And the Chinese. and the Japanese.  all of these have acted in a "belligerent" manner.

 
Re: we're just mocking them now
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Yet, it is somehow morally acceptable for the USA government to militantly disrupt other country's nuclear research programmes.

Why ascribe morality to it?  Iran has interests in the Middle East, counter to those of the United States.  Iran will be more capable of acting on its interests, with any sort of nuclear arsenal.  Therefore the United States acts to hinder Iran's nuclear program.  That's the rational actor model, as applied to foreign policy, not morality.
Good, that's progress. We can now safely state almost every war the USA has ever waged was because they were defending their interests and not because they were being the good guys and fighting for freedom and rights. I wish the USA government admitted that instead of demonizing countries they don't like, like Venezuela. Now, if the USA were to use the far more civilized commercial, political and diplomatic ways of interacting with other countries instead of waging wars, disrupting research and sponsoring coup d'etats, that would be even better.

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If you do want to map morality to the situation, then the waters get very muddy indeed.  What would Iran do with a nuclear arsenal?
We don't know. No, what the CNN states Iran would do doesn't counts.
Judging a country's rhetoric now without judging their past and their reasons and motives for acting that way is both unfair and inaccurate.
Of course, nobody wants a nuclear arsenal just to show it to his friends and brag about it, but it's still wrong to automatically assume they would use it at the slightest provocation (and by that way of thinking, every nuclear capable country should be eliminated NOW).

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  Would the situation in the Middle East be more morally preferable with a nuclear Iran or without a nuclear Iran?  Before answering those questions, don't forget to provide your definition of "morally preferable".
I jump the question completely. It's not YOUR job to decide what's morally preferable in the middle east, nor is it mine. There are international organizations whose job is to define that. The difference? I'm not the one advocating unilateral interventionism, you are.

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Personally, if I had to cobble together a brief justification for this style of intervention, I would define a morally preferable situation for the Middle East as reducing unnecessary loss of life and increasing the standard of living for the people of the region.
Both being things USA interventions have failed to provide in the long term. In fact, their very interventions have caused a lot more harm that what they have solved, both in Iran and in South America, as evidenced by the fact that this way of reasoning (USA has economic and political interest, so they do whatever they want) is the same that led the USA to partner with Iran to fund the Iranian nuclear program in the first place.

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  I see a nuclear Iran as being capable of using the threat of its nuclear arsenal to ward off possible attackers, while using its conventional military to further its regional foreign policy goals.
That's precisely what the USA is doing with their own arsenal.

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Past precedent and the rhetoric of Iran's leaders
Do you speak Persian? If the answer is no, I would recommend you disregard everything you know about Iran. The government and the media that filter your information have their own agenda. Recently, they blatantly manipulated Hugo Chavez rhetoric to make it look like he was spoiling for a fight, when the truth was quite different (I know. As you may have noticed, I speak both languages fluently enough to notice, and trust me, I don't like Chavez either). I can't find that particular video right now, but it's not the only case by far. I can't even begin to imagine what they say about governments like the Iranian one if they can lie so blatantly about lesser enemies.

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indicate that those regional goals include (in no particular order) seizing oil fields along the Iran-Iraq border,
Which by your definition is exactly what the USA wants.

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and the installation of Islamic theocracies in the Middle East
As far as I know (and I could be wrong in this), the overwhelming majority of the Iranian people voted to make their country theocratic in a popular referendum. That's democracy at its finest. There's no real reason to jump to the conclusion they would deny the opportunity to decide in the same way to any other country, especially considering how much countries in the middle east like theocracies to begin with. And regarding theocratic governments, it's not the USA job to decide if that's good or bad.

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(actually the world, but even with nukes, Iran doesn't have that kind of reach).
Again? You really enjoy constantly making predictions. When and if Iran starts doing something to actually indicate they would pursue this path, I will believe it. Now, there are more urgent things to worry about (like an interventionist superpower running loose).

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A nuclear Iran could wage conventional war or overtly disrupt ongoing popular uprisings, in order to further those objectives, with less threat of retaliation, due to the looming spectre of a nuclear arsenal, held in reserve.
And once again, that's precisely what the USA is doing.

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As warfare causes unnecessary loss of life
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States
Hardly looks like the USA with its interventionist policies is in a position to worry about the unnecessary losses of war. Again.

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and theocratic rule negatively correlates to standard of living
As judged by our Western standards. Then again, we're talking about the USA, a country which has a sizeable portion of their population without health care, and denies their citizens the right of same-sex marriage, so they are hardly in a position to point their fingers at the human rights violations that come associated with a totalitarian theocratic regime.
Meanwhile, Iran has something interesting to say about social rights:
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The political system of the Islamic Republic is based on the 1979 Constitution. Accordingly, it is the duty of the Islamic government to furnish all citizens with equal and appropriate opportunities, to provide them with work, and to satisfy their essential needs, so that the course of their progress may be assured.

Finally, consider this: Since USA intervention in South America (sort of) ended, we've been doing astonishing progress. Before, we were pretty much just like the middle east. I'm starting to wonder what would have happened if the USA had not intervened so much in the middle east and in south america in the first place.

I would love a world completely free of nuclear weapons, but along with getting the existing powers to reduce their stockpiles, there's another core tenet of nonproliferation: making sure that no other states start creating their own stockpiles.  That's reason enough to fire Trojans at Iran.
No, it's not. The USA is a major responsible for everything Iran has become. Now they want to use their military might and technological cunning to intervene AGAIN, to worsen the problem even more, to continue with a situation of unfairness. Had the USA let the poor guys alone so many years ago, this wouldn't have happened, and neither would have the AMIA bombings. But back then the USA was intervening to balance some other conflict. And this is time and time again the perfect excuse to do questionable things, because it will make things better. No, it will not. It creates resentment, impoverishes nations, and is just plain wrong.

I'm also going to point out that while america has wielded a ton of influence in the past century and a half on the world scale, so did many of the imperial nations, such as Britian, France, Spain, and Germany all at various points. So did the Romans. And the Chinese. and the Japanese.  all of these have acted in a "belligerent" manner.
That's why I also mentioned the "Western powers", and not only the USA. But just because others engaged in objectionable acts doesn't means you're justified to act the same way.

 

Offline watsisname

Re: we're just mocking them now
Oh boy, it's exponentially growing quote war time.
In my world of sleepers, everything will be erased.
I'll be your religion, your only endless ideal.
Slowly we crawl in the dark.
Swallowed by the seductive night.