[ShadowWolf_IH]

If something like this has already been tried, feel free to slam me and everyone else until a moderator closes this thread.

The idea is simple.  Labor trading.  Currently I am trading two skyboxes for a model.  I have traded fred for models in the past.

A good deal of people on here are skilled in some areas, but not others and they need work done in areas which they are not skilled.  The thought was simple, a palce where people could offer labor in trade for other labor.  Basically a place to bring together needs with those who would be willing to fill them.

Would there be interest in something like this being organized?

[mjn.mixael]

I do this all the time.. I trade rendered animations for code features...

[ShadowWolf_IH]

And gave me a missile for free....

I Have been thinking about this, but the Aerotech thread prompted me to do more than think.  Most vetereans here are known and trusted, so when we ask for something, we can usually find someone to help.  New guys are an unknown quantity, so my thought is, if they have something of value to offer, well then there is collateral for them.

[Legate Damar]

I could get into this. Although I don't know if Spoon would accept anything in trade for his WoD2 models.

[Droid803]

You're still gunning for those? Besides, I don't think that's the point of this project. It's for example - I'll UVmap these two models if you'll texture them (one of them being my model, the other being yours). That sort of thing.

Not dealing with completed stuff because that could get into real mucky territory if there are multiple authors involved and stuff gets passed around when they don't really have the "permission" to. Tends to stir up more drama than do any good at all.

If you're helping someone finish something, then well, there'd be no qualms about the said person having it (seeing as, well, they have to have it to work on it). I'd rather not have assets trade because that promotes hoarding. I mean, if there was an assets trade, you can sure as hell bet people would stop free-releasing things and demanding people to do things for them. Things that are exclusive are exclusive because they are spoiler-ish, or are a feature item, and no trading would really make them more accessible if they weren't just hoarded for the sake of hoarding in the first place. Thus all that results in is putting value onto hoarding assets that would otherwise have no value to keep from the community, and that is bad.

tl;dr?
Trading labour = good
Trading assets = bad

[Cyborg17]

*Holds up a sign*

Will Fred for Models

Not complicated models either:
1 Small terran civilian space station, which all projects could use.   Could be Custos sized and I wouldn't care.  The Goliath Model is just ugly.  Worth a medium complexity mission.

Cargo container/Freighter combo matching a certain style from a released mod pack.  Should be able to carry Retail Terran/Vasudan/Shivan cargo as well. Worth ~ 3 missions.  Meshes =1  Texturing/UVing=2.  I may be able to help with UVing depending on the complexity of the model, but it's really texturing that stops me from modeling.

I have sample missions for anyone interested.  Please have a mission script (or detailed outline) ready if you want to try an exchange.  The reason I don't finish my missions is that I don't know where I want them to go.  Provide me with clear direction, and I'll get it done.  Also, I should be able to tell if something is doable by me by the script.

[Scooby_Doo]

You're still gunning for those? Besides, I don't think that's the point of this project. It's for example - I'll UVmap these two models if you'll texture them (one of them being my model, the other being yours). That sort of thing.

Coming from Saga's experience, this sounds like a good idea in theory but in practice.. not so good.  Well at least for me. 

[Black Wolf]

For what it's worth, I'd personally vote against this, at least as any kind of community sanctioned, website or forum section. Obviously, I'd not want to try to stop people doing it privately, between friends or on IRC or whatever, but as a public, open and promoted part of HLP (or any of the other FS2 sites)? No, I'd nto like to see that.

This is why:

*Holds up a sign*

Will Fred for Models

Not complicated models either:
1 Small terran civilian space station, which all projects could use.   Could be Custos sized and I wouldn't care.  The Goliath Model is just ugly.  Worth a medium complexity mission.

Cargo container/Freighter combo matching a certain style from a released mod pack.  Should be able to carry Retail Terran/Vasudan/Shivan cargo as well. Worth ~ 3 missions.  Meshes =1  Texturing/UVing=2.  I may be able to help with UVing depending on the complexity of the model, but it's really texturing that stops me from modeling.

I have, on the go right now, a small terran space station (several actually, but only one that's relevant to this story). I've modeled it and UVed it and showed it off on IRC. I had planned to texture it myself too, and release it publicly. So, imagine I'm in my situation and I see this: What's my reaction? Well, to not release it of course - it's suddenly become valuable. If I can get something out of it, why release it for free? My natural instinct, in an environment like this, would be to hold off on releasing anything I might make for public use - maybe for a few weeks, maybe a few months, maybe indefinitely, until someone pops up requesting something that I already have - then I release it in exchange for whatever.

Now, maybe people wouldn't work like that. But... well, it was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this post. I can't say I would have necessarily acted in that way, but I certainly thought about it and it certainly seems plausible that others might too.

FWIW, BTW, the station story will have a happy ending. When I showed it off on IRC, MjnMixael noticed it, liked it and offered to texture it for me - I had planned on doing it myself, but his willingness freed me up to do something else (FRED, in that case). Given that it's a mutual effort, we'll probably end up releasing it publicly rather than locking it up for TI or BtA. We've actually done stuff for each other's projects in the past, as well, and will probably (hopefully) continue to do so in the future - not, I think, from any sense of obligation or pre-arranged trade, but more from the fact that we happen to have similar ideas about FS modding and we have complementary skill sets.

I'm certain that those kinds of serendipitous but mutually beneficial arrangements exist with lots of other modders as well, without the need to formalize and commoditize what we're all doing here as a hobby.

[EDIT]That said, it might be nice to have some kind of broad "Requests" thread somewhere... every now and then I get an urge to model something without any particular personal need driving it - about half of my output comes about because of this (the rest as a result of stuff I need for a mission). In those cases I generally just mess around in Max and see what happens (The Modular Construction Kit happened that way), but it might be nice to be able to look somewhere and see if there's a really strong demand for one particular type of model or another. Realistically though, there really aren't all that many people producing significant numbers of public assets - the percentage of filled requests would very likely be very, very small, so perhaps it's not worthwhile after all...

[EDIT2]Didn't really read what Droid said properly. TL:DR - I more or less agree with him.

[Scourge of Ages]

I have, on the go right now, a small terran space station (several actually, but only one that's relevant to this story). I've modeled it and UVed it and showed it off on IRC. I had planned to texture it myself too, and release it publicly. So, imagine I'm in my situation and I see this: What's my reaction? Well, to not release it of course - it's suddenly become valuable. If I can get something out of it, why release it for free? My natural instinct, in an environment like this, would be to hold off on releasing anything I might make for public use - maybe for a few weeks, maybe a few months, maybe indefinitely, until someone pops up requesting something that I already have - then I release it in exchange for whatever.

(Macro meant in the spirit of comedy, not saying that BW is the Joker or something)

[rhettro]

It would be cool if there was a database of users that listed what their skills were as well as their availability.

[headdie]

It would be cool if there was a database of users that listed what their skills were as well as their availability.

keeping the list up to date would probably not happen but it would be more useful than a formal swap page and be very helpful for starter mods

[ShadowWolf_IH]

I didn't mean for specifics to be public.  What I was thinking was more of an "I need a (insert something here with no description....model, skybox, model textured, tech room ani, etc etc etc), I have the following skills to barter with.  Skill x, skill y, skill z.   Pm me if intersted."

I didn't factor in the selfish nature of humans just being.

If it's a bad idea then it's a bad idea, but maybe some of the new guys can get some direction just from this thread when it comes to bartering in private.

[rhettro]

I didn't mean for specifics to be public.  What I was thinking was more of an "I need a (insert something here with no description....model, skybox, model textured, tech room ani, etc etc etc), I have the following skills to barter with.  Skill x, skill y, skill z.   Pm me if intersted."

I didn't factor in the selfish nature of humans just being.

If it's a bad idea then it's a bad idea, but maybe some of the new guys can get some direction just from this thread when it comes to bartering in private.

I don't think that is a bad idea at all. A swap forum of sorts.

[Jadehawk]

Hi Fellas,
I sure do miss texturing and on occasion I look at my past work and smile. I have kept tabs on things here an can say you guys are doing great! YES I have dabbled in making models too and well, I just dont have the time to learn more at the time being.
Real life has also kicked in and been too busy the last 2 years. I hope someday in the future to get back into texturing after my Aviation artwork projects wind down as I have the urge to kick some Shivan butt once again. 

I prefer Open sharing unless it's something private and not posted on here to cause speculation and confusion as well. Just me! 

[mobcdmoc3]

I'd love to participate, though I suppose the points made against it do have some validity. I do agree with what Droid said though. Better to just trade labor for labor, rather than labor for an already complete model, or vice versa. Although I suppose that has its own problems too.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

After much thought, I agree that the cons outwiegh the pros of this, in much the same way that congress has a way of outweighing progress.  Trades are, and will be a part of HLP.  A labor trade forum for things not readily available would be good.

First thing, no asking for finished assets.  That is just poor form.

Second point, do not get specific in the post about needs, save it for PM or whatever, but keep needs private.  This would stop some of the aspects of hoarding, as it isn't readily available that fredder X is looking for a model of Y and is willing to build Z number of missions.

Third, the requester should post what skills he/she is bringing to the bargaining table.  This allows anyone looking at the post to see if the requester can provide them with needed labor.  It would actually help to get a response.   Just keep it brief.  I can fred, do some pof work, and table hack is a good example.  Don't be specific about what mods you have worked with, save it for PM.

Four, don't post what you think someone else's labor is worth.  ie would be willing to fred x number of missions, or pof y number of models...etc etc.

I think that would alleviate some of the problems that I hadn't thought about, and that others brought up.