[NGTM-1R]

I can't say I'm really upset at this, but I also wouldn't be really upset if they cut a 9/11 memorial for you guys, so.

[Aardwolf]

I'm an American and I don't give a damn about 9/11. 

[karajorma]

Ah, the "I'm so hip, I'm so fashionable, I don't care about 9/11" responses. They always make me laugh.

It's one thing to say you don't see 9/11 as anything special compared with other terrorist activities except in scope, but to actually come out and say you don't care about what was basically one of the largest defining events of the first decade of this century simply paints you as tragically ignorant. Why not just tattoo "I'm mind-numbingly self centred" on your forehead and be done with it.

[NGTM-1R]

Ah, the "I'm so hip, I'm so fashionable, I don't care about 9/11" responses. They always make me laugh.

You could try actually reading what I wrote instead of kneejerking a reply that's not really relevant to it, y'know. Or just not being an asshole and making an asshole's assumptions about what was meant.

My point is that this doesn't upset me because it's a uniquely national issue in much the same way 9/11 is a uniquely national issue to the United States, and therefore if the BBC decided not to televise a 9/11 memorial in an Olympics here I would neither be surprised nor offended.

9/11 matters to me as an American. But I don't expect you or somebody in Kenya or Indonesia to share that, so in something rebroadcast for domestic consumption there I don't expect such emphasis to be placed on it.

[karajorma]

Who said I was even talking to you?

But I'll say that as a Brit, I WOULD be offended if a country decided to include a tribute in their opening ceremony and my media decided to trim it.

[StarSlayer]

To be fair, 373 foreign nationals, including 67 citizens of the UK, perished in the 9/11 attacks.  So while the US bore the brunt of the casualties that day, other nations have a little emotional investment as well.  And as kara correctly pointed out, it has shaped in large part US foreign and domestic policy, which truthfully most nations have felt to some degree or another.

[karajorma]

Thing is, it's not just the fact that it is about 7/7 that annoys me (although that does too). I think it's pretty rude to cut out an entire segment of the opening ceremony and just say "nah, you wouldn't like that".  If someone has decided to sit down and watch the entire 3 hour long opening ceremony it's pretty presumptuous to then say "We are the NBC. You will only like the bits of the ceremony we tell you to like."

The fact that it's a tribute to something just makes the insult worse but I'd be bit annoyed if I was watching the opening for any Olympics and they decided to cut bits out.

[Colonol Dekker]

Obviously the UK relevance is touching a few nerves, mine included. Thinking a little deeper about it, it is actually a bit egotistical of NBC to 1984'ify the thing. Bloody pompous to dictate, yes dictate is the word, what should and should not be seen.

[Klaustrophobia]

I'm just going to interject that I think it's equally as pompous for other entities outside of the US to try to dictate what NBC should show to the US, and that we should be offended that they didn't. 

And if we're going to get all pissy about cutting out coverage of the 7/7 attacks, what about the 1972 killings of the Israeli athletesm who were refused a tribute at all?  Why is no one throwing ***** fit about that?  Surely it's much more relevant, being as how it happened at the olympics.


If you are American and are upset about this, then fine, I understand.  If you are just taking this opportunity to go America-bashing, then you can just piss off.

[NGTM-1R]

Who said I was even talking to you?

Be hard to justify your use of the plural "responses" if you're only talking to Aardwolf's single response. Only one other person made a response that could even remotely be described the way you chose, and that was me.

If someone has decided to sit down and watch the entire 3 hour long opening ceremony it's pretty presumptuous to then say "We are the NBC. You will only like the bits of the ceremony we tell you to like."

Are you going to argue that NBC is not at least marginally familiar (after coming up with television from the radio age) with what is and is not of interest to viewers? A major broadcasting corporation so completely out of touch with its viewership should be in trouble! And they're not. You can rage against this all you want, might even be justified on some level, but this bit right here is hilariously poorly reasoned. Their job is to know what people want to watch. It's one they have performed competently for at least the last couple of decades. I'm more inclined to believe NBC as an expert in the field than I am inclined to believe you, all sides failing to present evidence to the contrary.

[Aardwolf]

Ah, the "I'm so hip, I'm so fashionable, I don't care about 9/11" responses. They always make me laugh.

It's one thing to say you don't see 9/11 as anything special compared with other terrorist activities except in scope, but to actually come out and say you don't care about what was basically one of the largest defining events of the first decade of this century simply paints you as tragically ignorant. Why not just tattoo "I'm mind-numbingly self centred" on your forehead and be done with it.

Hip and fashionable? You think I have that opinion because it's "hip and fashionable"? What is this I don't even 

Self centered? Yeah, I didn't know any of the people who died. But maybe that just puts me in a better position to think rationally about it. No, I don't think it's ok that they killed 3000 people. But it's the reaction to 9/11 that has shaped world politics for the past decade, and not in a good way. So when people want to "remember 9/11" I'm compelled to say:  Look at the mess you made "remembering 9/11". The less that single event shapes your decisions, the better.

[headdie]

Dare I Ask can NBC hat-trick the fails? http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/londonspy/tv-interviewer-fails-spot-holyfield-123208876.html

in summery NBC reporter fails to recognise Evander Holyfield despite the broadcaster employing him as a pundit for some of their broadcasting.

[Polpolion]

To be perfectly honest I really don't blame NBC at all for that one.

[Ghostavo]

And if we're going to get all pissy about cutting out coverage of the 7/7 attacks, what about the 1972 killings of the Israeli athletesm who were refused a tribute at all?  Why is no one throwing ***** fit about that?  Surely it's much more relevant, being as how it happened at the olympics.

Because it happened 4 decades ago and it has nothing to do with these olympic games?

[headdie]

And if we're going to get all pissy about cutting out coverage of the 7/7 attacks, what about the 1972 killings of the Israeli athletesm who were refused a tribute at all?  Why is no one throwing ***** fit about that?  Surely it's much more relevant, being as how it happened at the olympics.

Because it happened 4 decades ago and it has nothing to do with these olympic games?

The issue there is that it has infinitely more to do with the Olympics than 7/7 and yet as far as I am aware there has never been an Olympic memorial to the tragedy.  As you say it was a long time ago and while it means the international memory fades, in the interests of being fair it means there is a stronger argument for there to have been one, the difference i suppose is that such a memorial will cause unrest in the Palestinian territories which will cause no end of political grief and possibly cost lives, where as no one politically gives a **** if they piss off al qaeda

[Ghostavo]

And if we're going to get all pissy about cutting out coverage of the 7/7 attacks, what about the 1972 killings of the Israeli athletesm who were refused a tribute at all?  Why is no one throwing ***** fit about that?  Surely it's much more relevant, being as how it happened at the olympics.

Because it happened 4 decades ago and it has nothing to do with these olympic games?

The issue there is that it has infinitely more to do with the Olympics than 7/7 and yet as far as I am aware there has never been an Olympic memorial to the tragedy.  As you say it was a long time ago and while it means the international memory fades, in the interests of being fair it means there is a stronger argument for there to have been one, the difference i suppose is that such a memorial will cause unrest in the Palestinian territories which will cause no end of political grief and possibly cost lives, where as no one politically gives a **** if they piss off al qaeda

I don't mean to sound disrespectful towards any of these events, but how does a terrorist attack on the Israeli team in Munich (even though it was during the olympics) has more to do with these olympics than a terrorist attack in London against... well... Londoners, a day after the London olympic games were given the go ahead?

The fact that the victims of a specific event were never honored has no bearing on what is being discussed.

[mjn.mixael]

This thread is funny.

Not the content... just the posters, and their various arguments.

[karajorma]

I'm just going to interject that I think it's equally as pompous for other entities outside of the US to try to dictate what NBC should show to the US, and that we should be offended that they didn't.

Why? The opening ceremony is a distinct whole. For parts to get cut out is somewhat of an insult to the creator and all those who worked on it. By extension it's also an insult to London and the whole of the UK.
 Wouldn't you be offended if you wrote a book but the British publisher trimmed bits out as not of interest to the British public? Wouldn't you be offended if instead they decided to add something else in their place? Something they felt that the British public would prefer to read instead of your writing?

And if we're going to get all pissy about cutting out coverage of the 7/7 attacks, what about the 1972 killings of the Israeli athletesm who were refused a tribute at all?  Why is no one throwing ***** fit about that?  Surely it's much more relevant, being as how it happened at the olympics.

And the question has to be, why now? We haven't seen tributes to them at other Olympics so why should there suddenly be one at this one? The problem is that there is no connection between the Munich attack and the London Olympics. The way I see it is that when Israel or Germany hold the Olympics they can have their tribute.

And the 7/7 bombings are relevant to London's Olympic bid. They happened the day after London won, just as everyone was celebrating the win. They weren't a random tribute to a terrorist atrocity. For most British people the winning of the bid and the 7/7 bombings will always be linked together. They're not relevant to other Olympics and that's why there wasn't a call for a tribute at the Beijing Olympics.

If you are American and are upset about this, then fine, I understand.  If you are just taking this opportunity to go America-bashing, then you can just piss off.

I love this response. The earlier part of the thread spent ages distancing NBC and America and you want to conflate the two again. Why can't someone who isn't American complain about their choice of programming? Especially when other Americans are also complaining about it?
 Complaining about some aspect of America != America-bashing.

Be hard to justify your use of the plural "responses" if you're only talking to Aardwolf's single response. Only one other person made a response that could even remotely be described the way you chose, and that was me.

And this is the only thread in the world about 9/11 is it? You assume when I say responses that I was actually referring to this thread alone.

What makes your belief that I was responding to you especially hilarious is that I've actually had you on ignore for about 2 months now and I only read selected posts from you. I was totally unaware that you'd even posted on the subject. I'd never bothered to click on the "You are ignoring this user. Show me the post." link from the post you claim I must have been talking about, until you posted something which I suspected was a reply to my post to Aardwolf. At that point I backtracked and noticed you'd talked about it too.

Feel free to claim I must have known what you were talking about psychically.

Hip and fashionable? You think I have that opinion because it's "hip and fashionable"? What is this I don't even 

Self centered? Yeah, I didn't know any of the people who died. But maybe that just puts me in a better position to think rationally about it. No, I don't think it's ok that they killed 3000 people. But it's the reaction to 9/11 that has shaped world politics for the past decade, and not in a good way. So when people want to "remember 9/11" I'm compelled to say:  Look at the mess you made "remembering 9/11". The less that single event shapes your decisions, the better.

Then say that. That's exactly the point I was making. I probably made it in a tone that came off as a little more confrontational than I meant it but that's what you should have posted in the first place.

It's quite obvious from your response that you do care about 9/11. That's good. My point was that there are people who say they don't care. And that these people are generally trolls and idiots. They post that they don't care in order to get themselves flamed or cause trouble. Why would you lump yourself in with these people?

[cancer wingg]

Going to interject here, if it's okay.

Wouldn't you be offended if you wrote a book but the British publisher trimmed bits out as not of interest to the British public? Wouldn't you be offended if instead they decided to add something else in their place? Something they felt that the British public would prefer to read instead of your writing?

Personally, I wouldn't care.  But I don't think that makes me an idiot. I might pull out of the contract if they put something grossly unrepresentative of what I was saying, but I want the readers to like the book too.

And the question has to be, why now? We haven't seen tributes to them at other Olympics so why should there suddenly be one at this one? The problem is that there is no connection between the Munich attack and the London Olympics. The way I see it is that when Israel or Germany hold the Olympics they can have their tribute.

Technically, they both relate to the Olympics. But I agree that there are better venues for politically charged topics than the Olympic Games. A lot of people might take these statements the wrong way as support for the War on Terror or about the supposed looming national security threats out there, while bombings and terrorists attacks are small part of the much greater suffering that happens every day in most poor countries, and is rarely brought up at these events.

[NGTM-1R]

Wouldn't you be offended if you wrote a book but the British publisher trimmed bits out as not of interest to the British public? Wouldn't you be offended if instead they decided to add something else in their place? Something they felt that the British public would prefer to read instead of your writing?

Localization is not an abnormal part of the publishing process. Well, unless you're protected from editors by virtue of your fame or nobody really bothers to give a damn because they want to save the money. Hell, that might even just count as regular editing if you're trying to sell exclusively to the British market. People have their artistic visions with tinkered all the time by other people whose job is to sell the product. Nothing interesting or unusual there.

Also I'm sort of giggling over the fact you have people on ignore, as an administrator, after we had a huge blowout during Batts' tenure as a moderator over his doing just that. Apparently nothing was learned from that episode. C'est la vie; let the stupidity roll.