[soilder198]

I dont about anyone else, but I really like happy ending.

Like, Sol is fine, everyones happy.

[Colonol Dekker]

Open to all. It's a hedonistic ungoverned beast

[Molybdenum]

I always felt that limiting a campaign to take place in a single system severely cripples the possibilities in mission design. Without the need to use nodes, any ship can just jump out at any time. To counteract this limitation the BP team decided to add jump gates in sol to their canon thus allowing stuff like escort missions.

My idea was that while Sol is obviously isolated from the GTVA it does not necessarily have to be isolated entirely. Say a new subspace node popped up in Sol leading to a batch of new, uncharted before systems. These systems would have been hastily explored and colonized by the resource-hungry factions in Sol. I feel like this could add better dynamic to any campaign based around Sol politics. Nodes are not only good for mission design but also make for good plot elements.

[The E]

I always felt that limiting a campaign to take place in a single system severely cripples the possibilities in mission design. Without the need to use nodes, any ship can just jump out at any time. To counteract this limitation the BP team decided to add jump gates in sol to their canon thus allowing stuff like escort missions.

Wrong. In FS, ships are always (theoretically) free to jump to safety. Star systems are big places, and getting away from a threat is therefore always possible by just jumping in a random direction for a couple light minutes.
In BP, we used stuff like drive recharge times in order to give a good reason as to why a given ship has to hang around for a period of time; in other cases, we put the player into a position where jumping away would mean a mission failure, because there's something that needs to be protected or destroyed at the mission site.

There is no fundamental difference between a campaign set at various places in a single system, and a campaign that travels all over the nodemap. In both cases, the mission designer needs to find a reason why the ships in the mission are where they are.

Nodes are not only good for mission design but also make for good plot elements.

This is an unsupported assertion. Nodes, by themselves, only present the opportunity to do two kinds of missions, node assault or node defense. Their plot value is defined by what is happening on the other end; this is not fundamentally different to the question "what happens in <planetary body> orbit?" or "what is in that asteroid field?"

[Molybdenum]

Mostly I'm thinking about "Escort to node" type missions that are abundant in FS and fan made campaigns. I felt as if the jump gates were added to the BPverse to allow these types of missions. They have better pacing then "defend ship until drives recharge" type missions because the distance to the node/jump gate indicated mission progress.

"Node attack" and "Node defense" type missions aren't really that characteristic. You can replace the node with basically any other static object(disabled ship, space station) and it won't really effect the missions flow.

Nodes are good plot elements because they make the most logical border zones and frontlines in a setting were strategic positioning is mostly meaningless due to instant travel.

[headdie]

Mostly I'm thinking about "Escort to node" type missions that are abundant in FS and fan made campaigns. I felt as if the jump gates were added to the BPverse to allow these types of missions. They have better pacing then "defend ship until drives recharge" type missions because the distance to the node/jump gate indicated mission progress.

"Node attack" and "Node defense" type missions aren't really that characteristic. You can replace the node with basically any other static object(disabled ship, space station) and it won't really effect the missions flow.

Nodes are good plot elements because they make the most logical border zones and frontlines in a setting were strategic positioning is mostly meaningless due to instant travel.

And yet you cant limit the action to the nodes.  To take control of a system you have to control the points of interest in the system and eliminate hostile forces so once the node is taken then deep space installations, defence outpost, trading outposts, planets all become potential combat sites, indeed because these places are generally populated there is a human aspect there that can be exploited to create and change emotional atmosphere that isnt an option with a node.

[Al-Rik]

I dont about anyone else, but I really like happy ending.

Like, Sol is fine, everyones happy.

I like a happy endings too, but given the situation after the destruction of the Lucifer Sol would be a mess:

- connection to the colonies was lost, with no knowledge if the colonies were destroyed by the Shivans or the Vasudan (remember, 14 Years of war...)
- no knowing that the Shivans have been defeated the should still consider them a threat
- destroying the Subspace node could have had some devastating effect to the Moons and Planets of the Sol system: Earthquakes, Storms, ect...
- great economical trouble because of the lost Subspace Node

If there is no Anarchy or fighting Successor States chances are high that some kind of militaristic, xenophobe and totalitarian regime is ruling the Sol system.
They ruled the last 30 Years with an iron fist, building Ships and trained every citizen for the day then the Shivans return...
...and than one day the humans of the GTVA return and tell them they are in  League with mankind's former Arch enemy  (and even suppressed with them the pro- Terran NTF Rebellion )

[The E]

- connection to the colonies was lost, with no knowledge if the colonies were destroyed by the Shivans or the Vasudan (remember, 14 Years of war...)
- no knowing that the Shivans have been defeated the should still consider them a threat

Alpha Centauri is 4 light years away, and reachable via nodes. Light-speed communication should, therefore, be possible (insert theories about why this hasn't come up in FS2 here).

[NGTM-1R]

If there is no Anarchy or fighting Successor States chances are high that some kind of militaristic, xenophobe and totalitarian regime is ruling the Sol system.

Militaristic is probable, since the best way to keep Sol from breaking up would be to assert control of all military assets. Xenophobic and totalitarian, however, require further evidence before your assertion will be considered well-founded.

[headdie]

- connection to the colonies was lost, with no knowledge if the colonies were destroyed by the Shivans or the Vasudan (remember, 14 Years of war...)
- no knowing that the Shivans have been defeated the should still consider them a threat

Alpha Centauri is 4 light years away, and reachable via nodes. Light-speed communication should, therefore, be possible (insert theories about why this hasn't come up in FS2 here).

4 years worth of transmission lag is a long time, long enough that current affairs communications traffic is probably pointless and that transmission of sensitive data would be risky because there is no way to guarantee who will receive the data or if the intended recipient government still exists, it kind of asks the question what would be sent in these signals?  Also what is the risk factor in data corruption?

[The E]

Well, I suppose that something as fundamental as "noone here but us shivans" would be possible to transmit.

As for day-to-day news, those are obviously not going to matter, but general "Hey. We're still alive, and this has been happening" broadcasts? No problemo.

As for data corruption, well, it's a matter of transmission protocol and signal strength. Morse code, to take a particularly low-tech protocol, is very very hard to corrupt, and a civilization capable of weaponizing ****ing antimatter should have no difficulty at all constructing a rather good transmitter and very good receivers.

[Al-Rik]

Xenophobic and totalitarian, however, require further evidence before your assertion will be considered well-founded.

They fought a 14 Year War against the alien Vasudans, and were almost whipped out by the even more alien Shivans.
If there is something like a reason to be xenophobic that's one.
It also gives the ordinary citizen an external foe, that is handy to keep them in line and united.
"Don't hate your brothers on Mars and Jupiter Moons even we have to send them food, the Shivans blew of the node, not they"

And all militaristic systems must become sooner or later totalitarian to justify the spending on weapons and reduced personal freedom.
Militaristic in a sense like North Korea now or the former states of the Warsaw Pact.
Now enough money to satisfy each citizens needs beyond the basic ones.
An civil economy seriously hindered by not enough investments in maintenance.
On the other side lots of resources are spend on Rearming and Weapon Research.

Almost everyone is affected by the draft and regular exercises.
Even the kids getting basic military training in school like educating in shooting and throwing hand grenades.
You can't keep this level of pressure up without becoming totalitarian.
"Anyone who questions our course in handling the dooming thread of the Shivans is a traitor to mankind. DO You question it, citizen ?"

[headdie]

how are we defining "militaristic systems"

Government maintaining a military = all but 2 or 3 nations on present day Earth
Government spending or more per GDP on the military than the global average = USA is the top spender on the lists found here
Government using the military for Law and order = Most governments had provision for it
Government Head with military ties = Royal families often have members who have served, even the UK, while the Queen hasnt served, her husband has.
Military Dictatorship = yes the temptation is to go down the totalitarian route, especially given the traditional military organisation, but it is not forced
Stratocracy = No distinction between military and government functions, potentially can be a democracy where public office can only be held by former or serving military personnel so would be more stable than a military dictatorship as the populous still has the feeling that they have some say.
Military junta = sits somewhere between military dictatorship and Stratocracy again temptation is there but not forced

Warsaw Pact.

Soviet version of NATO, ok more political interference from Moscow.  And while even in Russia there was a questionable distinction between civilian and military aspects of government it was there and it was technically for the most part a civilian government

Almost everyone is affected by the draft and regular exercises.

Democracies have done this too, in the UK, the draft started for WWII didn't finish until 1960.  This was also one of the periods of the longest life expectancy in the UK

Even the kids getting basic military training in school like educating in shooting and throwing hand grenades.

dont know of any countries where there is or has been training like this at school level, there are child soldier in some African regions but that is not done through the schools there by my understanding

[soilder198]

Happy ending:

Pilots who destroyed the lucifer realize how bad war is. Most likely, they'll be praised for defeating it then be given great long speech where they say, " war is bad, peace and unity is the only solution!" Large, rumbling standing ovation is given, and then we all live peacefully with occasional crime and misdemeanors.

[NGTM-1R]

They fought a 14 Year War against the alien Vasudans, and were almost whipped out by the even more alien Shivans.

Neither of which has been an issue in over a generation at the time of FS2. Neither of which was expected, at the end of FS1, to be an issue within the lifetime of a fighter pilot who had just entered the service a few months ago.

Sol doesn't expect to hear from anyone for the next eighty years at least. It could well be longer; this is, after all, The Future^TM.

And all militaristic systems must become sooner or later totalitarian to justify the spending on weapons and reduced personal freedom.

Statement unsupported by evidence; statement furthermore indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of why the Sol government will probably be qualified as militaristic. The goals of the military and the goals of the state will, in all likelihood, be indistinguishable, hence a militaristic government, but those actual goals are to control the production and usage of space-based military hardware, particular fighter and ship hulls, which is not an aggressive goal nor one that necessarily requires the revoking of personal freedoms or anything else you're proposing.

[Megawolf492]

- connection to the colonies was lost, with no knowledge if the colonies were destroyed by the Shivans or the Vasudan (remember, 14 Years of war...)

Well, by the time of the collapse, the Shivans had destroyed or forced evacuations of most of the colonies. I would be more concerned that you couldn't contact them more than knowing if they are still around.

- no knowing that the Shivans have been defeated the should still consider them a threat

They knew the Lucifer had been destroyed, so that should give them some comfort. Of course, they didn't know what happened to the rest of the Shivan fleet or if there were other Lucifers, so that should give them a state of vigilance, not necessarily one of emergency/anarchy.

- destroying the Subspace node could have had some devastating effect to the Moons and Planets of the Sol system: Earthquakes, Storms, ect...

That makes sense. I mean, the GTVA collapsed two nodes in the Capella system and looked what happened to it...

Sol doesn't expect to hear from anyone for the next eighty years at least. It could well be longer; this is, after all, The Future^TM.

Why 80 years? Just a number or what?

Alpha Centauri is 4 light years away, and reachable via nodes. Light-speed communication should, therefore, be possible (insert theories about why this hasn't come up in FS2 here).

From what I understand of FS canon, the two "extra" Sol nodes seen in the FS1 briefings are mistakes or at least made non-canon in FS2. So you can't reach it (if you could it would make this thread pointless). About the light speed communication, I believe that a signal couldn't reach, like others have said. I understand that in RL, EM transmissions dissipate the further they go; that the 70's TV broadcasts we all thought would be reaching aliens by now probably don't make it past the Kuiper Belt/Oort Cloud/whatever else is out there. This has more to do with degradation than corruption.

[Scourge of Ages]

Has anybody ever considered what it looked like to the rest of the GTA when the Sol node collapsed?

The last transmissions they got from the fighters were probably something like:
"Hey guys, we're getting pretty close to Sol, but we almost have this puppy killed."
"Hey guys, us again. Just about done here, but Luci is kiiiiind of exiting subspace."
*Silence*

So one of two things happened, as far as the GTA knows. Either the Lucifer exploded half-inside the subspace corridor and collapsed it, something that nobody had any idea was even possible; or it got through (despite it's reactors being disabled) and deployed something that closed the node, something that nobody would know was or wasn't possible.

[soilder198]

Has anybody ever considered what it looked like to the rest of the GTA when the Sol node collapsed?

The last transmissions they got from the fighters were probably something like:
"Hey guys, we're getting pretty close to Sol, but we almost have this puppy killed."
"Hey guys, us again. Just about done here, but Luci is kiiiiind of exiting subspace."
*Silence*

So one of two things happened, as far as the GTA knows. Either the Lucifer exploded half-inside the subspace corridor and collapsed it, something that nobody had any idea was even possible; or it got through (despite it's reactors being disabled) and deployed something that closed the node, something that nobody would know was or wasn't possible.

I've never actually thought about that. I'm sure though, the time it must've taken for the Lucifer to explode after having its last reactor destroyed should be well over the time needed for an Orion to be destroyed. In that span of time, one of the fighters most likely said to command, "We did it!"

[MatthTheGeek]

From The Great War techroom entry in FS2 retail :

From the Delta Serpentis system, a squadron launched from the GTD Bastion pursued the Lucifer into the Sol jump node. These fighters and bombers had to destroy the Lucifer's reactors before the superdestroyer extinguished all life on Earth.

According to declassified transmissions, the mission succeeded. However, the explosion of the Lucifer created a subspace cataclysm that collapsed the Sol jump node, severing all contact between Earth and the other systems of Terran-Vasudan space.

So, it is canon that the GTVA knows the Lucy was destroyed.

[Scourge of Ages]

Well that's no fun