Author Topic: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap  (Read 6266 times)

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Offline MP-Ryan

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Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
An editorial piece that should be required reading:  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/americas-flight-from-fiscal-reality/article4524658/

Quote
The flight from reality is easy to diagnose. Neither party wants to axe the sacred military budget. Neither wants to raise taxes. By definition, therefore, the restoration of fiscal health has to come exclusively from spending cuts to domestic programs.

U.S. taxes aren’t what they seem on paper – rather steep in some areas and redistributive in others. When you glance below the surface, however, the tax code is shot full of complications and loopholes, tilted to the rich and the very rich, producing less revenue than any other OECD country (except Mexico and Chile) as a share of the total economy and, critically, relying less on consumption taxes than other countries. Were the Americans to impose a 5-per-cent national sales tax on themselves (the Canadian rate, and the lowest among countries with national sales taxes), the country’s fiscal crisis would be on the way to resolution.

Such a tax is unthinkable in a climate where Americans feel themselves overtaxed, despite the evidence that, in 2009 (according to the OECD), Americans paid the third-lowest share of their national income in tax within that organization.

Republicans whine about high corporate taxes and, on paper, these taxes are high – a top rate of 39 per cent. Yet, so many exemptions, credits and other loopholes – many resulting from ubiquitous corporate lobbying on Capitol Hill – pockmark the corporate tax code that U.S. business pays one of the lowest effective tax rates in the advanced industrial world.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
A 5% national sales tax would bump up most total sales taxes in the US to somewhere between 13 and 15%.  Right now sales taxes are how states raise a not-insignificant amount of revenue for their governmental business.  Here in Kansas, we'd be up to a 13.3% sales tax (5% national, 6.3% state, 1% county, and 1% city).

Closing income tax loopholes would be a much more effective and more universally popular option than increasing sales taxes, since that affects everyone who doesn't steal everything they use for a living.

  

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
A 5% national sales tax would bump up most total sales taxes in the US to somewhere between 13 and 15%.  Right now sales taxes are how states raise a not-insignificant amount of revenue for their governmental business.  Here in Kansas, we'd be up to a 13.3% sales tax (5% national, 6.3% state, 1% county, and 1% city).

Closing income tax loopholes would be a much more effective and more universally popular option than increasing sales taxes, since that affects everyone who doesn't steal everything they use for a living.

Countries that rely on VATs to a greater extent than the US use a tiering system where VATs are exempted off sustenance items and therefore do not disproportionately affected lower classes.  But closing tax loopholes would be an excellent first step, particularly in the area of corporate taxes.  I just wish you the best of luck with that - those loopholes exist because of corporate lobbying, and getting rid of them will be near-impossible.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
* Scotty shrugs.

I just know for a fact that sustenance items are taxed in Kansas.  Milk is $3/gallon at the local Aldi's (the cheapest it is anywhere, even on the actually sales-tax free Commissary on Fort Leavenworth, fifteen minutes' drive away), but if you go in with $6 and expect to get two gallons, you'll come up short.  Hell, even bottled water gets taxed here.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
"Bottled water" shouldn't fall under the category of "sustenance". Unless there's something very wrong with the aquifers in your area, it's a luxury. Drink tap water.


Regarding loopholes: George W. Bush's "tax cuts" = elimination of the "capital gains tax" = the reason some of "the 1%" pay $0 in federal taxes. I've said this before and nobody acknowledged me; if this is wrong, correct me or I'll keep saying it.

Bring back the capital gains tax!

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax


A capital gains tax (CGT) is a tax on capital gains, the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory asset that was purchased at a cost amount that was lower than the amount realized on the sale. The most common capital gains are realized from the sale of stocks, bonds, precious metals and property. Not all countries implement a capital gains tax and most have different rates of taxation for individuals and corporations.
For equities, an example of a popular and liquid asset, national and state legislation often has a large array of fiscal obligations that must be respected regarding capital gains. Taxes are charged by the state over the transactions, dividends and capital gains on the stock market. However, these fiscal obligations may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
United States
Main article: Capital gains tax in the United States
In the United States, with certain exceptions, individuals and corporations pay income tax on the net total of all their capital gains. Short-term capital gains are taxed at a higher rate: the ordinary income tax rate. The tax rate for individuals on "long-term capital gains", which are gains on assets that have been held for over one year before being sold, is lower than the ordinary income tax rate, and in some tax brackets there is no tax due on such gains. The tax rate on long-term gains was reduced in 2003 from 20% to 15% (for individuals, whose highest tax bracket is 15% or more), or from 10% to 5% for individuals in the lowest two income tax brackets (whose highest tax bracket is less than 15%) (See progressive tax). The reduced 15% tax rate on eligible dividends and capital gains, previously scheduled to expire in 2008, was extended through 2010 as a result of the Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act signed into law by President Bush on May 17, 2006, which also reduced the 5% rate to 0%.[23] Toward the end of 2010, President Obama signed a law extending the reduced rate on eligible dividends until the end of 2012.
The law allows for individuals to defer capital gains taxes with tax planning strategies such as the structured sale (ensured installment sale), charitable trust (CRT), installment sale, private annuity trust, and a 1031 exchange. The United States is unlike other countries in that, with some exceptions,[24] its citizens are subject to U.S. tax on their worldwide income no matter where in the world they reside. U.S. citizens therefore find it difficult to take advantage of personal tax havens. Although there are some offshore bank accounts that advertise as tax havens, U.S. law requires reporting of income from those accounts, and willful failure to do so constitutes tax evasion.
[edit]Deferring or reducing capital gains tax


The examples and perspective in this section may not represent a worldwide view of the subject. Please improve this article and discuss the issue on the talk page. (September 2009)

This section may contain original research. Please improve it by verifying the claims made and adding references. Statements consisting only of original research may be removed. (October 2010)
Capital gains tax can be deferred or reduced if a seller utilizes the proper sales method and/or deferral technique. There are many such sales techniques and methods, each of which has its benefits and drawbacks. See some ways to defer and/or reduce capital gains tax below.
(US Only) - Tax Loss Harvesting - Realized tax losses can carry forward forever and can be applied to offset capital gains months or years in the future. Discretionary Overlay managers have developed new trading methodologies that have evolved tax loss harvesting into a year-round strategy, as opposed to year-end, which is standard to most financial advisors, and is paramount in reducing the capital gains tax burden on affluent investors.[25]
Charitable trust - Defer and reduce capital gains by giving equity to a charity.
Installment Sale - Defer capital gains by taking payments from a buyer over a period of years. No protection from buyer default.
(US only) Deferred Sales Trust- Allows the seller of property to defer capital gains tax due at the time of sale over a period of time.
(US only) 1031 exchange - Defer tax by exchanging for "like kind" property—however, generally available only for real estate and tangible property, both of which must be business-related. Pay capital gains when they are realized (i.e. when subsequently sold).
(US only) Roth IRA - Transactions inside an account (including capital gains, dividends, and interest) do not incur a current tax liability.
(US only) Structured sale annuity (aka Ensured Installment Sale) - Defer and reduce capital gains tax while gaining safety and a stream of guaranteed income.
(US only) Self Directed Installment Sale (SDIS) Allows for the deferral of capital gains taxes while removing the risks from buyer default under a traditional installment sale.
(US only) (historical) Private annuity trust - No longer a valid tax deferral tool.
(Canada only) - Utilize a Tax-Free Savings Account

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
some places have horrible tap water that is unfit for human consumption. the tap water in phoenix was horrible. not like here where you can get better water that what the store sells by dipping your glass into a creek and the tap water tastes about the same.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline jr2

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
Eh, yeah, the tap in my town (I live 10 miles out at the edge of town and have well water, not town water, but I have lived in town before) will reduce the filtering rate of those brita / pur water filters to a tiny trickle after 3-4 weeks of use, instead of the normal use of a few months before replacing.  Any machinery in town that relies on water (washing machines, water heaters, coffee machines, etc) gets dirty and breaks down faster due to the deposits left by the water.  I refuse to drink it, it's just nasty tasting.  Cause?  Apparently the town wells were drilled in a bad spot.  All 10 of them.  Why they haven't been moved, I don't know.  I guess because it's not quite considered toxic, and is still (supposedly) potable (drinkable).

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
Two words: carbon filters (as already noted). You can apparently re-process those if you like as well, but you'd need to look that up. It's like a water filtration plant on a small scale, and they too need to clean out the filter media every once in a while.

Back on subject, neither the Republicon (many thanks to Norman Goldman for that one) or Democrat (another slyr would be completely called for here, too...) candidates offer a plausible economic position for the upcoming election. The solution is not more taxes, it's a balanced budget and kicking the so-called "Defence" spending in the balls. If you want change, start investigating who your local politicians are, and very much consider voting third-party.
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

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"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


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Offline jr2

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
Democrack?  Democrap?  Repubican?  :lol:

 
Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
* Scotty shrugs.

I just know for a fact that sustenance items are taxed in Kansas.  Milk is $3/gallon at the local Aldi's (the cheapest it is anywhere, even on the actually sales-tax free Commissary on Fort Leavenworth, fifteen minutes' drive away), but if you go in with $6 and expect to get two gallons, you'll come up short.  Hell, even bottled water gets taxed here.

Count yourself lucky you're in Kansas; in California, it's about $6 a gallon in many places.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
i agree that out war machine should turn a profit. we need to start invading other countries and horking their stuff.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
So apparently what I was thinking of when I was all "Bush 2 eliminated the capital gains tax", was: "Bush 2 reduced the capital gains tax from ~28% to ~15%".

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
Who's that other guy? George something? He's running as a Republican or ex-liberalist. I can't remember. He seems like a decent guy, I'll probably vote for him (definitely not voting for Obomney).

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 07:35:09 pm by Thaeris »
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke

 

Offline Alex Heartnet

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
i agree that out war machine should turn a profit. we need to start invading other countries and horking their stuff.

Oh, it's turning a profit alright.  It's just doing so in a slightly unusual way - extracting wealth not from the nation being invaded, but from the invaders.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
i agree that out war machine should turn a profit. we need to start invading other countries and horking their stuff.

Oh, it's turning a profit alright.  It's just doing so in a slightly unusual way - extracting wealth not from the nation being invaded, but from the invaders.

yea, we need to fix that.

Gary Johnson!

the more i read about the guy the more i want to vote for him. but i also know that the only hope i have at helping to dethroning obama is to go with the republican nominee. so thats what im gonna do.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
Given the political field, the insanity prevalent in the Republican Party, and the fact that the only nominee with a snowball's chance in hell is either the Republican or Democrat, I'm genuinely curious why I see so many people saying they'll vote libertarian or against Obama.

Say what you will about Obama, but the Republican party has no fiscal credibility right now.  They're worse than the Democrats.  They also have a social/scientific agenda that makes the Pope looking positively progressive.  So what on Earth makes any of you who will be voting in this US election think a Romney win (because you folks planning to vote Libertarian are contributing to it, like it or not) is going to improve your lives or those of the average American citizen in any meaningful way?

I know as far as Canada is concerned I'm a Red Tory, but I look at the Republicans and see fiscal+social disaster lately.  How is that better than the status quo?
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline stinkyFeet

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
Actually, nevermind, ignore this. Kudos to Obama for pulling our troops out from everywhere.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 01:13:50 am by stinkyFeet »

 

Offline Thaeris

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Re: Americans: your entire political structure is full of fiscal crap
I...

...Don't think that's the right recourse of action. I have been maintaining for quite a while that by voting third-party this year, you're not throwing your vote away. Seriously, Romney and Obama are just the same on all important matters, and they're not going to make matters any better while in office. At least try to make a difference by voting for someone who actually has a reputable history.

*Edit: wow, that was a weird ninja. Care to explain that one, stinkyFeet?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 01:20:21 am by Thaeris »
"trolls are clearly social rejects and therefore should be isolated from society, or perhaps impaled."

-Nuke



"Look on the bright side, how many release dates have been given for Doomsday, and it still isn't out yet.

It's the Duke Nukem Forever of prophecies..."


"Jesus saves.

Everyone else takes normal damage.
"

-Flipside

"pirating software is a lesser evil than stealing but its still evil. but since i pride myself for being evil, almost anything is fair game."


"i never understood why women get the creeps so ****ing easily. i mean most serial killers act perfectly normal, until they kill you."


-Nuke