Author Topic: new computer tower  (Read 4885 times)

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Offline Mongoose

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The one thing that I find potentially most intimidating is dealing with that thermal goop.  I'd almost rather stick with a cooler that has it pre-applied then risk mucking up everything. :p

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Having just built my first PC a few months ago, with basically zero experience...it's like putting LEGOs together, on the difficulty scale.

Also don't listen to whoever was saying not to get a SSHD. They're incredible for your OS and applications that you use often. You can always add a traditional HDD later on, or cannibalize drives from older computers.

 

Offline pecenipicek

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after having done that particular thing more than 8 or 9 times, i can say that a much scarier moment is prying the heatsink off of the cpu. nothing gives you a lovely heart attack as removing a heatsink only to find the cpu is stuck to it. lesson learned? scythe thermal gunk might as well be plastic cement.

If going with an aftermarket cooler, always, and i mean ALWAYS buy a decent syringe of thermal paste.
Arctic Cooling's MX-2 has proven very good for CPU's so far, after applying it to 5 cpu's, still got enough for 3 more applications. its also extremely easy to clean up after removal.
MX-3 has proven gloriously awesome as a GPU paste. bad part was that i needed the whole syringe for my particular gpu... (dont ask for explanation, yes, it was neccesary, and yes, i did require the whole ****ing syringe for it)

in general, i find the rule of pinky nail for the amount to be quite decent for CPU's. (if the glob of thermal paste is around the size of your pinky's nail and 2-3mm thick, you've got enough for AMD cpu's. bit less is needed for Intel's, since they have a bit smaller surface area)


Spoiler:
on the topic of SSD's, more space always trumps more speed in my opinion, both in the RAM department and in HDD department, altough this depends on your planned useage. besides if you really need speed, you'll already be familiar with RAID and wont need help deciding from the peanut gallery :p
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How about a ~100 MGB SSD for the OS and stuff plus a 1 TB HD in case you want more than one game installed at once.

EDIT: Right you are, Mongoose!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 08:41:39 pm by Scourge of Ages »

 

Offline Mongoose

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I sincerely hope that's 100 GB, not MB. :p

 

Offline KyadCK

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after having done that particular thing more than 8 or 9 times, i can say that a much scarier moment is prying the heatsink off of the cpu. nothing gives you a lovely heart attack as removing a heatsink only to find the cpu is stuck to it. lesson learned? scythe thermal gunk might as well be plastic cement.

If going with an aftermarket cooler, always, and i mean ALWAYS buy a decent syringe of thermal paste.
Arctic Cooling's MX-2 has proven very good for CPU's so far, after applying it to 5 cpu's, still got enough for 3 more applications. its also extremely easy to clean up after removal.
MX-3 has proven gloriously awesome as a GPU paste. bad part was that i needed the whole syringe for my particular gpu... (dont ask for explanation, yes, it was neccesary, and yes, i did require the whole ****ing syringe for it)

in general, i find the rule of pinky nail for the amount to be quite decent for CPU's. (if the glob of thermal paste is around the size of your pinky's nail and 2-3mm thick, you've got enough for AMD cpu's. bit less is needed for Intel's, since they have a bit smaller surface area)

I've had that happen 3 times with my CPU so far. And yes, it gives you a heart attack.

Fortunetly, the CPU I suggested is an LGA socket 1155. The pins are on the board, then you put in the CPU, then a metal frame closes tightly over the edge to lock it in place, then you put the cooler on. No more ripping out the CPU. But still, always twist, then pull.

Also, Corsair puts some really nice paste on their coolers, so don't worry about it the first time, but do buy one just in case.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

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thermal paste is far easier to deal with than most how-tos make it out.  sure, if you want to get every tiny little fraction of a degree temperature drop possible, you have to be really meticulous in using it, but for just it's basic use, all you have to do is squirt enough on the heatsink base so that you get full coverage and press it on.  dot of the stuff in the center usually does it.  too much thickness will degrade performance ever so slightly, but as long as it's covering the whole heat spreader you're good.  if you're worried about not getting an even/full spread, you can spread it yourself with an index card or something before sticking it on.

i've never paid for the fancy stuff like arctic silver, but the stock stuff that came with my CM hyper 212+ works just fine.  overclocked to 4.6, stressing with prime95/intel burn test maxes out at 70C.

all that said, if you're not going to be overclocking, you don't need an aftermarket heatsink, and you can just not deal with it at all.  intel's stock coolers have pre-applied paste.
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Offline pecenipicek

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after having done that particular thing more than 8 or 9 times, i can say that a much scarier moment is prying the heatsink off of the cpu. nothing gives you a lovely heart attack as removing a heatsink only to find the cpu is stuck to it. lesson learned? scythe thermal gunk might as well be plastic cement.

If going with an aftermarket cooler, always, and i mean ALWAYS buy a decent syringe of thermal paste.
Arctic Cooling's MX-2 has proven very good for CPU's so far, after applying it to 5 cpu's, still got enough for 3 more applications. its also extremely easy to clean up after removal.
MX-3 has proven gloriously awesome as a GPU paste. bad part was that i needed the whole syringe for my particular gpu... (dont ask for explanation, yes, it was neccesary, and yes, i did require the whole ****ing syringe for it)

in general, i find the rule of pinky nail for the amount to be quite decent for CPU's. (if the glob of thermal paste is around the size of your pinky's nail and 2-3mm thick, you've got enough for AMD cpu's. bit less is needed for Intel's, since they have a bit smaller surface area)

I've had that happen 3 times with my CPU so far. And yes, it gives you a heart attack.

Fortunetly, the CPU I suggested is an LGA socket 1155. The pins are on the board, then you put in the CPU, then a metal frame closes tightly over the edge to lock it in place, then you put the cooler on. No more ripping out the CPU. But still, always twist, then pull.

Also, Corsair puts some really nice paste on their coolers, so don't worry about it the first time, but do buy one just in case.

should've mentioned that happened with my socket am2+ AMD only, didnt happen with my i7 860 :D
but yes, intel did some good stuff there.

thermal paste is far easier to deal with than most how-tos make it out.  sure, if you want to get every tiny little fraction of a degree temperature drop possible, you have to be really meticulous in using it, but for just it's basic use, all you have to do is squirt enough on the heatsink base so that you get full coverage and press it on.  dot of the stuff in the center usually does it.  too much thickness will degrade performance ever so slightly, but as long as it's covering the whole heat spreader you're good.  if you're worried about not getting an even/full spread, you can spread it yourself with an index card or something before sticking it on.

i've never paid for the fancy stuff like arctic silver, but the stock stuff that came with my CM hyper 212+ works just fine.  overclocked to 4.6, stressing with prime95/intel burn test maxes out at 70C.

all that said, if you're not going to be overclocking, you don't need an aftermarket heatsink, and you can just not deal with it at all.  intel's stock coolers have pre-applied paste.
as i've said, the pinky nail rule for the amount of goop to drop in the center has proven to be a very good measure.
honestly, the reason i'm using mx-2 and not the normal stuff that comes with coolers is that i got it for something like $5 for the 4g syringe. and that was 3 or so years ago, the paste is still doing fine.
as for the aftermarket cooling and intel's... yeah, the stock coolers are just fine, provided you are not doing anything that will consistently use the cpu and heat it up. no, games dont really count unless they are really heavily multithreaded and hard on the physics side.
i went with the scythe mugen3 i had laying around since the stock cooler was incessantly getting clogged up by dust and the temps hit 80°C when i was rendering stuff out, and i was truly not happy nor comfortable with that.
with the mugen3, temps dropped to 30 on idle and maybe up to 50 when going full on the useage. and this is with keeping the fan at minimum speed at all times, to avoid much noise. Intel's stock coolers are damn good, no doubt about that, its just that my cpu is either at the upper bound of what they can handle (the infamous TDP), or i got a non-i7 stock cooler with it, which is also possible, since i'm the second owner of the cpu...
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Offline KyadCK

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with the mugen3, temps dropped to 30 on idle and maybe up to 50 when going full on the useage. and this is with keeping the fan at minimum speed at all times, to avoid much noise. Intel's stock coolers are damn good, no doubt about that, its just that my cpu is either at the upper bound of what they can handle (the infamous TDP), or i got a non-i7 stock cooler with it, which is also possible, since i'm the second owner of the cpu...

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Noooooo, Intel stock coolers suck ass. You want a good stock cooler? You look at AMD's 125w Phenom II coolers:


Direct contact copper base, heat pipes, a "good" (for stock) fan... They had to keep a 125w TDP under 63C, remmeber, not Intel's 90w TDP under 90C. Much better cooler. On a Llano, Trinity, or Athlon II chip you could consider this aftermarket cooling.

EDIT: Oh, and the fan is replaceable if you really want to.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 02:09:37 am by KyadCK »
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Offline pecenipicek

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with the mugen3, temps dropped to 30 on idle and maybe up to 50 when going full on the useage. and this is with keeping the fan at minimum speed at all times, to avoid much noise. Intel's stock coolers are damn good, no doubt about that, its just that my cpu is either at the upper bound of what they can handle (the infamous TDP), or i got a non-i7 stock cooler with it, which is also possible, since i'm the second owner of the cpu...

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Noooooo, Intel stock coolers suck ass. You want a good stock cooler? You look at AMD's 125w Phenom II coolers:


Direct contact copper base, heat pipes, a "good" (for stock) fan... They had to keep a 125w TDP under 63C, remmeber, not Intel's 90w TDP under 90C. Much better cooler. On a Llano, Trinity, or Athlon II chip you could consider this aftermarket cooling.

EDIT: Oh, and the fan is replaceable if you really want to.
arent those scythe's coolers anyhow? i remember vaguely something about amd contracting scythe or some other manufacturer for their stock's.

in any case we are debating semantics anyhow :p

also, dont make me pull out the crap that amd 7750 BE's stock cooler was. thats a 125W TDP cpu as well :p (the normal 7750 is 95, BE is 125)
[edit] upon further research, it appears that the 7750 BE is actually a 95W TDP as well, but i know from experience i had much more problems keeping it running cool than this i7 860 honestly... could be an iffy mobo's voltage control for the cpu, considering that according to some benchmarks it says it should run at 1.2-1.25V and i know mine was being fed 1.3V by the mobo, or at least thats what the mobo reported. i need to investigate this more thoroughly.

(also, upon reading on intel's site, my cpu is at 95W TDP, so it makes sense if the coolers are rated for up to 90W. you got to give it to intel however, they've done one hell of a job making them small and silent yet still capable of cooling monster cpu's decently)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2012, 02:28:06 am by pecenipicek »
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Offline KyadCK

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arent those scythe's coolers anyhow? i remember vaguely something about amd contracting scythe or some other manufacturer for their stock's.

in any case we are debating semantics anyhow :p

also, dont make me pull out the crap that amd 7750 BE's stock cooler was. thats a 125W TDP cpu as well :p (the normal 7750 is 95, BE is 125)

(also, upon reading on intel's site, my cpu is at 95W TDP, so it makes sense if the coolers are rated for up to 90W. you got to give it to intel however, they've done one hell of a job making them small and silent yet still capable of cooling monster cpu's decently)

Possibly.

And no, I really don't consider letting an i7 heat up to 80C good, no matter how high the CPU is rated for. Intel chips have a much lower TDP, and yet their coolers let them get 20C+ over what AMD's max temps are, and AMD doesn't even really go over 55C at stock with stock.

$5 says if they paired their chips with even half of an AMD stock cooler they wouldn't even cap 50C under full load. Intel is just being lazy with their crap coolers because the chips are rated for 90C.

TL;DR: Intel makes very good CPUs, but total **** coolers.
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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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I was incredibly paranoid about cooling my first build, so this is what I came up with:

Intel i5-2500K (i3's are the suck, i7's are mostly overkill for gaming)
Biostar TZ77B LGA1155 mobo
8GB G.skill Ripjaws X @ 2133MHz
OCZ Agility 3 120GB SSHD
PowerColor Radeon HD6850
Corsair H60 closed-loop water cooler
Apevia 680W PSU
NZXT Source 210 case, plus an extra fan

All for $762 on the nose. I've since added a WD Caviar Blue 1TB HDD since I like to download YouTube videos and watch them at my leisure without the annoyances, but if it wasn't for that I would have been fine with the SSHD. Unless you do video editing or something (or you're a rampant pirate, yarr), mega high capacity drives are /probably/ unnecessary. But again, you can always add more HDDs.

One thing to keep in mind if you build your own PC: airflow airflow airflow. Even pre-built PC manufacturers are terrible at this. Hurr durr let's make the side fan exhaust so there's no cool air blowing over the mobo and no cool air for the CPU cooler to draw over the heatsink! Great idea!

Don't overthink it but ideally you want to do a couple of things:
1) The motherboard needs cool air. There are a few hotspots (the northbridge and southbridge, for you savvy ones) that really should be cooled.
2) Your CPU cooler NEEDS an inflow of cool air to work properly. If there's nothing but hot air circulating in the case, it can't magically cool it down before it blows it through the heatsink.
3) Your graphics card? Same thing. Most of them suck in air through the fan and blow it out the back of the case. If they're sucking in warm air, they're not gonna work well, and modern GPUs get hot.
4) Don't fight convection, goddammit. Hot air rises. Cool air sinks. High school freshman science there. Exhaust out the top of the case, intake near the bottom. Make sure your fans aren't fighting nature. Nature always wins. Also make sure they aren't fighting each other.
5) DUST. If the place you live has lots of dust, or especially pets, you may want to consider air filters, or a positive-pressure cooling setup (basically means there's more intake than exhaust, which makes the inside of the case slightly pressurized - any little screw holes/gaps, instead of letting dust in, will constantly be venting air instead). It sounds complicated, but it's really not. More fans blowing in than fans blowing out, assuming they're the same size, of course. Also, forgot commercial air filters. They kill airflow. I've been using...wait for it...dryer sheets. Yes, those little guys you throw in the dryer to kill static.

If a first-timer like me can figure all this out, I'm sure OP can. This is probably the most intelligent and computer savvy community I've been a (small) part of. Good luck! If you decide to build, that is, OP.

 

Offline KyadCK

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I was incredibly paranoid about cooling my first build, so this is what I came up with:

Intel i5-2500K (i3's are the suck, i7's are mostly overkill for gaming)
Biostar TZ77B LGA1155 mobo
8GB G.skill Ripjaws X @ 2133MHz
OCZ Agility 3 120GB SSHD
PowerColor Radeon HD6850
Corsair H60 closed-loop water cooler
Apevia 680W PSU
NZXT Source 210 case, plus an extra fan

All for $762 on the nose. I've since added a WD Caviar Blue 1TB HDD since I like to download YouTube videos and watch them at my leisure without the annoyances, but if it wasn't for that I would have been fine with the SSHD. Unless you do video editing or something (or you're a rampant pirate, yarr), mega high capacity drives are /probably/ unnecessary. But again, you can always add more HDDs.

2133Mhz ram is so far overkill it's insane. 1600 is the 'standard' these days, but you'll hardly see any improvement over 1333 anyway. G.Skill is good though.

If this is his first computer being built on his own, I very much doubt he'll be overclocking. Z77 and K arent going to be helpful. Look at a H67 (77 is IvyBridge, not Sandybridge) and non-k. I do agree on the cooling though, and the H60 is a fine choice for a non-overclocked CPU.

I3's are most certainly not "the suck", Pentiums and Celerons are "the suck". You have about 8x the needed CPU power to keep up with the GPU you chose, considering an i3 isn't even held back by a 680 or 7970. This is a serious unbalance. Also, the 6850 get's it's ass kicked by the smaller and cheaper 7770 in price, preformance, and power consumption with the latest drivers.

OCZ has not been a trusted SSD brand in quite some time, especially the ones with SandForce controllers. The Samsung 830 for the same price offers faster read/write, more IOPS, more storage, and better reliability.

Apevia is really truly not a good PSU brand, and that's an even worse PSU then the norm. Stick with SeaSonic, Corsair (rebranded SeaSonic), Rosewill, Antec, Thermaltake, or Silverstone PSUs for anything under $80 or so. At least they offer the wattage they write on the side.

It mostly comes down to knowing where to look for quality parts.

Quote
One thing to keep in mind if you build your own PC: airflow airflow airflow. Even pre-built PC manufacturers are terrible at this. Hurr durr let's make the side fan exhaust so there's no cool air blowing over the mobo and no cool air for the CPU cooler to draw over the heatsink! Great idea!

Don't overthink it but ideally you want to do a couple of things:
1) The motherboard needs cool air. There are a few hotspots (the northbridge and southbridge, for you savvy ones) that really should be cooled.
2) Your CPU cooler NEEDS an inflow of cool air to work properly. If there's nothing but hot air circulating in the case, it can't magically cool it down before it blows it through the heatsink.
3) Your graphics card? Same thing. Most of them suck in air through the fan and blow it out the back of the case. If they're sucking in warm air, they're not gonna work well, and modern GPUs get hot.
4) Don't fight convection, goddammit. Hot air rises. Cool air sinks. High school freshman science there. Exhaust out the top of the case, intake near the bottom. Make sure your fans aren't fighting nature. Nature always wins. Also make sure they aren't fighting each other.
5) DUST. If the place you live has lots of dust, or especially pets, you may want to consider air filters, or a positive-pressure cooling setup (basically means there's more intake than exhaust, which makes the inside of the case slightly pressurized - any little screw holes/gaps, instead of letting dust in, will constantly be venting air instead). It sounds complicated, but it's really not. More fans blowing in than fans blowing out, assuming they're the same size, of course. Also, forgot commercial air filters. They kill airflow. I've been using...wait for it...dryer sheets. Yes, those little guys you throw in the dryer to kill static.

If a first-timer like me can figure all this out, I'm sure OP can. This is probably the most intelligent and computer savvy community I've been a (small) part of. Good luck! If you decide to build, that is, OP.

When you have an H60 and a cagefan GPU, that all goes out the window. There is nothing inside the case to heat anything anymore. The GPU and CPU heat it up, sure, but all that heat goes straight out the back.

1: The motherboard is just fine. It does not need airflow like the CPU and GPU do. The standard case fans are enough. (Intel boards also do not have a NorthBridge, it's on the CPU now)

2: One fan in back and one in front usualy gets rid of that unless the case isnt made correctly.

3: Modern GPUs run cold as hell compared to, say, the 400 and 500 series.

4: Convection doesn't mean **** inside a computer case if you have the fans to push the air around. There are many people who mount a 240/360 rad on top, have the side, front, top and bottom as intake and let it shove all the hot air out the back.

5: Always go Positive air pressure. It'll just make life easier. Also, pantyhoes make good filters. Fan size has nothing to do with it, there are 120mm fans that push 30cfm, and there are 120mm fans that push 250cfm. Always try to know the CFM rating, because that is the only value (besides how much noise it makes) that matters.
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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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You're correct in that the 77 is an Ivy Bridge mobo, but that's precisely why I got it - if I want to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge chip, I can drop it in instead of getting an entirely new mobo. It's worth it to spend a little more to give yourself room to upgrade, or at least that was my line of thinking.

i3s don't have a large enough cache, and I think it's worth it to get an unlocked CPU. Overclocking isn't rocket surgery (the i5-2500K doesn't need any voltage tweaks to run up to 4.6 GHz), and it's a good way to get more bang for your buck out of a CPU. Since most applications don't really take advantage of the MOAR CORES mania going around, clock speed is important. From this point on I'd always recommend going into the BIOS and disabling dynamic clock speeds anyway (since the system is monumentally retarded about allocating resources), so changing the multiplier from 33 to 46 isn't that much of a stretch from there.  :D


 

Offline KyadCK

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You're correct in that the 77 is an Ivy Bridge mobo, but that's precisely why I got it - if I want to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge chip, I can drop it in instead of getting an entirely new mobo. It's worth it to spend a little more to give yourself room to upgrade, or at least that was my line of thinking.

i3s don't have a large enough cache, and I think it's worth it to get an unlocked CPU. Overclocking isn't rocket surgery (the i5-2500K doesn't need any voltage tweaks to run up to 4.6 GHz), and it's a good way to get more bang for your buck out of a CPU. Since most applications don't really take advantage of the MOAR CORES mania going around, clock speed is important. From this point on I'd always recommend going into the BIOS and disabling dynamic clock speeds anyway (since the system is monumentally retarded about allocating resources), so changing the multiplier from 33 to 46 isn't that much of a stretch from there.  :D

While you are 100% correct with this, that overclock will mean nothing paired with a 6850.  :p  2500k/3570k at 4.6 typically support dual 7950/670 setups with ease.
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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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You're correct in that the 77 is an Ivy Bridge mobo, but that's precisely why I got it - if I want to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge chip, I can drop it in instead of getting an entirely new mobo. It's worth it to spend a little more to give yourself room to upgrade, or at least that was my line of thinking.

i3s don't have a large enough cache, and I think it's worth it to get an unlocked CPU. Overclocking isn't rocket surgery (the i5-2500K doesn't need any voltage tweaks to run up to 4.6 GHz), and it's a good way to get more bang for your buck out of a CPU. Since most applications don't really take advantage of the MOAR CORES mania going around, clock speed is important. From this point on I'd always recommend going into the BIOS and disabling dynamic clock speeds anyway (since the system is monumentally retarded about allocating resources), so changing the multiplier from 33 to 46 isn't that much of a stretch from there.  :D

While you are 100% correct with this, that overclock will mean nothing paired with a 6850.  :p  2500k/3570k at 4.6 typically support dual 7950/670 setups with ease.

Actually, it's been quite helpful in Sins of a Solar Empire late-game. Friggin' trade ships.  :D

Edit: Also getting a new GPU at some point soon. Like I said, I built this thing to be easily upgrade-able.

 

Offline KyadCK

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You're correct in that the 77 is an Ivy Bridge mobo, but that's precisely why I got it - if I want to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge chip, I can drop it in instead of getting an entirely new mobo. It's worth it to spend a little more to give yourself room to upgrade, or at least that was my line of thinking.

i3s don't have a large enough cache, and I think it's worth it to get an unlocked CPU. Overclocking isn't rocket surgery (the i5-2500K doesn't need any voltage tweaks to run up to 4.6 GHz), and it's a good way to get more bang for your buck out of a CPU. Since most applications don't really take advantage of the MOAR CORES mania going around, clock speed is important. From this point on I'd always recommend going into the BIOS and disabling dynamic clock speeds anyway (since the system is monumentally retarded about allocating resources), so changing the multiplier from 33 to 46 isn't that much of a stretch from there.  :D

While you are 100% correct with this, that overclock will mean nothing paired with a 6850.  :p  2500k/3570k at 4.6 typically support dual 7950/670 setups with ease.

Actually, it's been quite helpful in Sins of a Solar Empire late-game. Friggin' trade ships.  :D

Edit: Also getting a new GPU at some point soon. Like I said, I built this thing to be easily upgrade-able.

An Ivy bridge CPU is not, and never will be, worth $220 to upgrade to (only a 5% increase in preformance at the same clock, and overclocks worse). Since you can't get the Z77's featureset without an Ivy CPU, the Z77 chipset is a waste. Just a Z68 if you're going 2500k, or pack in a 3570k right off, which dropping the ram to 1600 (which is still overkill) should cover.

While I do like Corsair's H-series, it would be better to swap it out with an Hyper 212 EVO or 212+, which can still get the CPU to ~4.2-4.4, and leave money open to replace the GPU with a 6870, which actually makes sense to crossfire instead of toss out and get a new one.

Swap out the OCZ with a Samsung 830 128GB, it's around the same cost anyway, and swap the PSU, which is horrible, with a Corsair CX600, which should be enough for dual 6870s while not raising the cost too much.
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Offline Klaustrophobia

  • 210
  • the REAL Nuke of HLP
    • North Carolina Tigers
why do you keep giving him advice on what he's already built?
I like to stare at the sun.

 

Offline KyadCK

  • 29
  • Getting better with every game
    • Minecraft
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why do you keep giving him advice on what he's already built?

Because this is a recommendation for the OP as well.
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Offline Venicius

  • 27
  • Be gone, ruffian!
    • Minecraft
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what do you think of AMD processors?  are they about the same as Intel or lesser?