Author Topic: What's up on the ground in Greece?  (Read 13420 times)

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Offline Unknown Target

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What's up on the ground in Greece?
I know we have at least one poster from Greece. I haven't seen it hit headlines recently, how bad is it over there for the average citizen?

 

Offline achtung

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
what's up in Spain even?
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
Portugal here. It's pretty rad. We're gonna have a jump of like 30% in IRS taxes. Everyone's psyched.

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
People who want a tax hike? Awesome.

 
Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
Could also have been sarcasm. :P
DO we even have any greek/close-to-greek members?
Fun while it lasted.

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Offline Sarafan

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
Portugal here. It's pretty rad. We're gonna have a jump of like 30% in IRS taxes. Everyone's psyched.

Can you describe the situation more? Is Portugal just following everyone along and adopting austerity or is it doing anything different?

 

Offline headdie

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
I'm in the UK but the news earlier was on about disturbances in Greece during a state visit from the German Chancellor, which is to be expected as they are one of the lead voices demanding that Greece cuts back on spending and reduces its debts before the Eurozone gives them any money.  The headline stuff was about the Chancellor being compared to hitler by some protesters but even the reporters admitted that this was the minority and that most people that turned up were just fed up with the money saving measures.
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Offline Hades

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
Hades and Rampage, IIRC.
Rampage may be. I am not from Greece, though my father is.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
Portugal here. It's pretty rad. We're gonna have a jump of like 30% in IRS taxes. Everyone's psyched.

Can you describe the situation more? Is Portugal just following everyone along and adopting austerity or is it doing anything different?

It's doing austerity full throtle. And it's killing us. Unemployment going through the roof (16%, an historical record) and the deficits not going down. Kinda hard to go down when the employed go down in numbers, when the market is free-falling.

Not much we can alternatively do though. We cannot do what we traditionally would have done in similar circumstances: devalue the local currency (which would empoverish everyone equally against the rest of the world, but would maintain employment and gain some productivity against other countries). We are stuck with an overvalued Euro, a situation that is being proven to be just as bad as being stuck with the Gold standard.

I can explain you the problem in a more developed manner. Rest assured, it's ghastly bad. The Euro experience proves the idea that you cannot have a common currency without a more shared tax policy (sharing bank bonds, sharing unemployment subsidies, and so on and so on). However, there is no political will to go an European Federation. So we are kinda stuck in an hesitation. And Greece is suffering pretty badly. Their best option would be to sever their usage of the Euro and return to the Drachma. Such a move would be disastrous in the first year or two however and so no politician is really going to porsue it.

So, unless the politicians start doing what they failed to do so far: have a vision and lead the events, rather than reacting to what should have been obvious disasters from the beggining, we will continuing the downward path we've been through so far.

 

Offline Sarafan

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?

It's doing austerity full throtle. And it's killing us. Unemployment going through the roof (16%, an historical record) and the deficits not going down. Kinda hard to go down when the employed go down in numbers, when the market is free-falling.

Not much we can alternatively do though. We cannot do what we traditionally would have done in similar circumstances: devalue the local currency (which would empoverish everyone equally against the rest of the world, but would maintain employment and gain some productivity against other countries). We are stuck with an overvalued Euro, a situation that is being proven to be just as bad as being stuck with the Gold standard.

I can explain you the problem in a more developed manner. Rest assured, it's ghastly bad. The Euro experience proves the idea that you cannot have a common currency without a more shared tax policy (sharing bank bonds, sharing unemployment subsidies, and so on and so on). However, there is no political will to go an European Federation. So we are kinda stuck in an hesitation. And Greece is suffering pretty badly. Their best option would be to sever their usage of the Euro and return to the Drachma. Such a move would be disastrous in the first year or two however and so no politician is really going to porsue it.

So, unless the politicians start doing what they failed to do so far: have a vision and lead the events, rather than reacting to what should have been obvious disasters from the beggining, we will continuing the downward path we've been through so far.

Faça o que a familia real fez, fuja pro Brasil! :lol:

I heard that Portugal is exporting a lot of gold thanks to a lot of people melting their jewelry, is this true?

 
Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
Also the fact that the gold industry is peculiarly skyrocketing right now.
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
There are a lot of commercials here from companies that are buying gold from families and so on, so yeah I guess that's true.

 
Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
My dad's in the jewellery industry, and you should hear what we talk about. Gold is at it's highest value it's been in a very long time - I think at least a few decades (IIRC). He's been in the industry for 30 years, and still can't tell exactly why it's like this.
Fun while it lasted.

Then bitter.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
My dad's in the jewellery industry, and you should hear what we talk about. Gold is at it's highest value it's been in a very long time - I think at least a few decades (IIRC). He's been in the industry for 30 years, and still can't tell exactly why it's like this.

The answer is pretty much obvious. Everyone is scared **** of currencies right now for fear of inflation (a somewhat ridiculous fear, but still very prevalent in some circles, for example those so fond of the Gold standard), but everyone is also scared **** of the markets for fear of a recession / depression (deflation, yeah I know). So metals are an answer. And then it rises.

And when it rises, people recognize it and it becomes a bubbling ponzi scheme. Suddenly people believe that the rise is here to stay because some reason, and when everyone is not paying attention it suddenly collapses and the now owners of crates of these minerals facepalm themselves with how it was so obviously a bubble.

Just wait a couple of years, you'll see.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
And lots of people are emigrating to Angola in search of a better life. You've gotta laugh at that one.
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Offline Sarafan

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
And lots of people are emigrating to Angola in search of a better life. You've gotta laugh at that one.

Do you have a source on that? That would be terribly ironic.

 
Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
My dad's in the jewellery industry, and you should hear what we talk about. Gold is at it's highest value it's been in a very long time - I think at least a few decades (IIRC). He's been in the industry for 30 years, and still can't tell exactly why it's like this.

The answer is pretty much obvious. Everyone is scared **** of currencies right now for fear of inflation (a somewhat ridiculous fear, but still very prevalent in some circles, for example those so fond of the Gold standard), but everyone is also scared **** of the markets for fear of a recession / depression (deflation, yeah I know). So metals are an answer. And then it rises.

And when it rises, people recognize it and it becomes a bubbling ponzi scheme. Suddenly people believe that the rise is here to stay because some reason, and when everyone is not paying attention it suddenly collapses and the now owners of crates of these minerals facepalm themselves with how it was so obviously a bubble.

Just wait a couple of years, you'll see.
I like the explanation. It does sounds pretty logical when you think about it.

And lots of people are emigrating to Angola in search of a better life. You've gotta laugh at that one.

Do you have a source on that? That would be terribly ironic.
That one has been coming for years, actually. At least south here there seems to be a growing trend of immigrants from formerly rich and powerful countries coming to formerly poor and futureless countries. It's not only ironical, but decidedly unfair.

 

Offline yuezhi

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: What's up on the ground in Greece?
She was somewhat both corageous going down there, and downright ****ing terribly late.

The best thing that could ever happen to Europe right now would be Germany to leave the Euro. Ain't gonna happen for bloody obvious reasons.