[Nuke]

i dont think ive ever seen a video of a missile intercept system before, not to mention one in use against multiple targets during actual military operations. its quite impressive.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Hmm, I once read a good article in National Geographic Magazine, about one or two years ago. It focused on the differences in freshwater supply between Israel and Palestine. It can be summarized as follows:

Israel:



Palestine:



Now consider that this same situation extends every single basic supply: food, energy, education, whatever, you name it. Are you surprised the Palestinians are angry?

A question for Sandwich (and I mean this as an honest question, because I'm not following Israel's domestic politics myself): did any politician ever consider trying to be the good guys? Sending aid to Palestine, instead of live ammunition? Would the idea have any chance of catching on?

[BritishShivans]

Well, to be frank, it's both side's fault, really. Israel for trying to wipe out natives because they want MOAR lebensraum, and the Palestinians/Hamas/dudes trying to blow up Israel for targeting the civilian populace.

Of course though, the behavior of both parties can be summarized in regards to attacks by this sentence below:

Israel: BUT MAH JOOS! *and lebensraum*

Palestinians/Hamas/dudes trying to blow up Israel: Holy ****, they're wiping out all the minorities! Clearly, this must mean that everyone who lives in Israel are all horrible people who want to kill us all! Bomb them!

[Grizzly]

The israelian propaganda machine is quite impressive, with them using youtube and the social media and all. It is a bit ironic that they post the assisination of that hamas leader, in which 10 civilians died, alongisde a video on how the IDF minimizes civilian casualties, but still. Impressive stuff.

[Veers]

While I don't know everything that is going on within the Middle-East, or what has been specifically escelating the (more) recent violence and mobilisations. I would certainly have more respect for Hamas/Gaza if they focused less on spending $$ on bombing Israel. (Which from what I can see, is mostly bombing Civilians, due to range or ?) and instead focused on their economy, civilians and standard of living.

A good waste of money firing those rockets that Israel easily intercepted. And from what I can tell, if Israel wanted to steam-roll them, they wouldnt hold out long in a direct fight. Staying with their gurrilla warfare would keep them alive a little longer.

Anyway, it's a mess, stay safe Sandwich, and all.

[crizza]

Rocket just exploded in Tel-Aviv.

Realy "in" Tel Aviv?
The Iron Dome claculates the impact and engages, if the point of impact is inside a popolated area.

[NGTM-1R]

A question for Sandwich (and I mean this as an honest question, because I'm not following Israel's domestic politics myself): did any politician ever consider trying to be the good guys? Sending aid to Palestine, instead of live ammunition? Would the idea have any chance of catching on?

I'm not Sandwich, but let me answer anyways.

It's got no chance. First, Israel is after all surrounded by people who have vowed its destruction even if they're completely unable to cause it, and so long as either side keeps talking the ultimate hardline, there's very little room to negotiate. Second, Israeli's political landscape is badly skewed to the right-wing hawks.

The right-wing parties in Israel hold power out of proportion there for three reasons. One, everybody around them talks up war with Israel periodically and the nation has a history of having to defend its right to exist with force of arms. The second is self-inflicted, in identifying as a Jewish State they necessarily embrace a degree of conservationism that comes with religion. But these are fairly minor issues.

The real reason Israel is run by their version of Michele Bachmann most of the time, however, is because of the US. This is not, strictly speaking, a political choice anymore, as the machinery that makes it possible is mostly in private hands. We have, on one side, Judaism in the United States reacting quite reasonably to the fact that Israel is surrounded by people who have vowed its destruction and the destruction of their religion and ethnicity.

On the other side, we have a population of our own religious crazies, who while composing a small segment of the US population still manage to outnumber the population of the Israeli state because the US is kinda huge. These are people who are working off End Times Prophecy Checklists and other similar drivel and want Israel and its neighbors to be antagonistic because that's on their list. Wars and the rumors of wars. They give money to people who seem likely to bring about their desired apocalypse or at least keep things bad so the apocalypse still looks possible.

[Grizzly]

While I don't know everything that is going on within the Middle-East, or what has been specifically escelating the (more) recent violence and mobilisations. I would certainly have more respect for Hamas/Gaza if they focused less on spending $$ on bombing Israel. (Which from what I can see, is mostly bombing Civilians, due to range or ?) and instead focused on their economy, civilians and standard of living.

Don't think that is going to work really.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

It's got no chance. First, Israel is after all surrounded by people who have vowed its destruction even if they're completely unable to cause it, and so long as either side keeps talking the ultimate hardline, there's very little room to negotiate. Second, Israeli's political landscape is badly skewed to the right-wing hawks.

The right-wing parties in Israel hold power out of proportion there for three reasons. One, everybody around them talks up war with Israel periodically and the nation has a history of having to defend its right to exist with force of arms.

Oh, I'm not saying they should abolish their army, that would be rather careless indeed. But they could start by keeping it inside their own borders. It'll still provide plenty of deterrence, and without actually killing people.

The second is self-inflicted, in identifying as a Jewish State they necessarily embrace a degree of conservationism that comes with religion. But these are fairly minor issues.

The real reason Israel is run by their version of Michele Bachmann most of the time, however, is because of the US. This is not, strictly speaking, a political choice anymore, as the machinery that makes it possible is mostly in private hands. We have, on one side, Judaism in the United States reacting quite reasonably to the fact that Israel is surrounded by people who have vowed its destruction and the destruction of their religion and ethnicity.

Bah, I'm pretty sure the Jewish religion is NOT preaching the aggressive, selfish expansionist strategy they've been following... But yeah, there's rotten apples in every religion.

On the other side, we have a population of our own religious crazies, who while composing a small segment of the US population still manage to outnumber the population of the Israeli state because the US is kinda huge. These are people who are working off End Times Prophecy Checklists and other similar drivel and want Israel and its neighbors to be antagonistic because that's on their list. Wars and the rumors of wars. They give money to people who seem likely to bring about their desired apocalypse or at least keep things bad so the apocalypse still looks possible.

I might have misunderstood, but to me that sounds like the US tin-foil-hat people are controlling Israeli domestic politics? It sounds far-fetched to me...

[Droid803]

Let's just carpet bomb the place with H-Bombs and then let physics sort the rest out.
That's probably the fastest way of ending the nonsense, however nonsensical the method is.

[watsisname]

How about let's not suggest wiping out tens of millions of civilians, including friends on this very discussion board, or even joke about it.

[Nuke]

lets not discriminate, just nuke everybody.

[Grizzly]

How about we give the entire area to Switzerland? That's probably the one country no one really wants to piss off, as all your funders have major financial assets stored there.

[stinkyFeet]

Egypt ect all should help pay for Iron Dome in exchange for a better standard of living for Gazans, maybe?

[MP-Ryan]

Egypt ect all should help pay for Iron Dome in exchange for a better standard of living for Gazans, maybe?

Egypt is currently run by an off-shoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, and isn't more than a stone's throw from the 'wipe Israel off the map' political position themselves these days.

It's also interesting to note that the Gaza strip was actually territory seized from Egypt during the Six-Day war which they didn't negotiate to get back along with the Sinai with the 1979 treaty.  The fact is, the area has been unstable for decades and nobody really wants to administer or help it.  Meanwhile, it's current residents aren't helping their cause any by throwing rockets at Israeli population centers - that's just a recipe to getting bombed to rubble, again.

Israel needs to quit building ****ing settlements (which in terms of Gaza I believe they have already), the Palestinian territories need to quit flinging rockets at Israel, Russia and China need to each decide to support a peace process, and everybody needs to sort **** out.

Unfortunately, Islamist governments are replacing dictators in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, and potentially Syria, which is bad news for a Middle Eastern peace settlement as far as Israel and Palestine goes.

[NGTM-1R]

I might have misunderstood, but to me that sounds like the US tin-foil-hat people are controlling Israeli domestic politics? It sounds far-fetched to me...

Controlling, no, but having heavy influence on, yes. It helps to remember that Israel isn't a big place, so our crazies and their donations can easily outnumber man-on-the-street fundraising in the real country.

[MR_T3D]

The arabs speak of wiping a foreign, aggressive rival theocracy just dumped into their neck of the woods. *Most* don't speak of wiping out all jews, however.

To an extent, I agree, Israel as it stands should be wiped off the map.  And replaced with a Joint Israeli-Palestinian nation of two states sharing with its neighbours.

But that's impossible when BOTH sides think giving up an inch means their destruction.

[MP-Ryan]

The arabs speak of wiping a foreign, aggressive rival theocracy just dumped into their neck of the woods. *Most* don't speak of wiping out all jews, however.

Israel wasn't just dumped in their neck of the woods.  Read about the history of the region sometime.  Israel was formed based on action by the UN and as a result of ****ups by all involved.  The what-are-now-Israelis got fed up in the midst of it and declared themselves a country.  Had the UN (most notably Britain, at the time) not ****ed it up, there might have been a better solution than what we have now.

But that's impossible when BOTH sides think giving up an inch means their destruction.

There are big barriers to peace on both sides, but Israel at least has embraced the idea of a two-state solution (as has the Western world at large).  Governments in some of the Palestinian territories (Fatah party) have also accepted the notion of a two-state solution.  The government in the Gaza Strip - Hamas - refuses to recognize Israel entirely.

Kind of hard to reach a two-state solution when one of the parties at the table doesn't believe one of the others even has a right to exist...

Wikipedia also has an excellent primer on what wonderful people the Hamas government in Gaza is:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamization_of_the_Gaza_Strip

So, park me firmly in the camp of "israel can do whatever it needs to to protect its citizens from rocket fire."

[karajorma]

Kinda hard to justify that when by crippling the opposition party who were willing to talk peace, Israel were the ones who put Hamas in power in the first place though.

Especially when that itself was the result of  "israel doing whatever it wanted to to protect its citizens from rocket fire."

[Turambar]

People keep saying "Israel is open to peace, the Palestinians need to back down" and yet Israel keeps up its slow invasion of the West Bank.