[Luis Dias]

Now if I'm wrong, why are Americans slaughtering each other by the dump truck load with guns then? I don't know why you think I would revel in media violence, quite the opposite. Unless it's those little snipe shot smileys.

I'd be curious to see a per-capita statistic, since your efforts to compare the relatively tiny population of the UK to that of the US are amusingly flawed on their face.

I'm betting the shootings number per exty population is a lot closer than you think.

You would lose miserably. The US wins the competition by a *long long shot*. Don't believe me? Just look at this worldwide timeline of school shootings, and the list is mostly comprised by US examples with some oddities included like France or Yemen.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html
I have to say I was appalled by the suggestion that maybe it was time for teachers to start carrying guns. JFC, the problem in America is too damned guns, not too few. The situation regarding Switzerland is incomparable, since that is a quite odd country in many, many respects.

[NGTM-1R]

You would lose miserably.

It's a pity that Lorric just admitted I was correct in that his guesses were far inflated, then, and that I never specified school attacks in general, but I guess reading is hard.

[Luis Dias]

Well then I misread your intention. Let's get it straight though, you are to all accounts admitting that the ratio is still mind-boggingly huge.

[Aardwolf]

I blame my state (Virginia), where people can go to a gun show and get a gun without the otherwise required background check.

Edit: Uh... not sure what I'm blaming it for. But it's a problem.

[Lorric]

You would lose miserably.

It's a pity that Lorric just admitted I was correct in that his guesses were far inflated, then, and that I never specified school attacks in general, but I guess reading is hard.

Hey hey, I bet you never even read that post. You made it sound like that US and UK would be about equal, with our "tiny" 63 million population. Bottom line is 35X more people on equal population die to guns in the US than the UK. So you are wrong.

[Nuke]

the checks for handguns are at the federal level. things like rifles and shotguns can be had without checks, though you still have to file federal paperwork. im not sure how state law comes into play, though i think the state can limit the types and number of weapons you can get.

[redsniper]

I bought a rifle last year, and the guy had to call the FBI and make sure I was clear before selling it. So there was a check, but I think there should be a much more thorough one.

[NGTM-1R]

So you are wrong.

You posited 1/200th.

I said it would be much closer than that.

It was 1/35th.

I'm apparently wrong.

If this is how deep your analysis is, I'm not surprised at the quality of your argumentation. I mean, your error was over 50%, but hey.

[Lorric]

So you are wrong.

You posited 1/200th.

I said it would be much closer than that.

It was 1/35th.

I'm apparently wrong.

If this is how deep your analysis is, I'm not surprised at the quality of your argumentation. I mean, your error was over 50%, but hey.

If you honestly expected the US to still have many, many, many X the number of shooting deaths by population than the UK, then you can have this one. If not, no.

[NGTM-1R]

I didn't have an expectation, aside from the fact that you were bull****ting up relative statistics.

[Polpolion]

If you honestly expected the US to still have many, many, many X the number of shooting deaths by population than the UK, then you can have this one. If not, no.

 

[Nuke]

I bought a rifle last year, and the guy had to call the FBI and make sure I was clear before selling it. So there was a check, but I think there should be a much more thorough one.

i sold a few guns when i worked at a pawn shop many years ago. i always dreaded the paperwork. the call to the fbi can sometimes result in a hold, where a more thorough check needs to be done. and we essentially hold onto the gun until the fbi either authorizes or denies the purchase. this usually happens when the buyer has a criminal record or any other red flags. if you go buy a gun with a clean record you can usually get it in less than an hour.

[Lorric]

There is no need for us to bicker.

[Apollo]

I personally support tighter gun control laws, primarily as a means to root out sociopaths and unstable people (perhaps a personality test?). Given our rate of gun deaths I'd think we would already have implemented tighter policies, but every time someone tries politicians and pundits (mainly conservatives) go "OH **** THE SECOND AMENDMENT CONSTITUTION BLAH BLAH BLAH!" and ruin any chance of useful debate.

However, I do believe that private citizens who aren't dangerous should be able to purchase and conceal handguns, because I don't want the government to be the only one with weapons.

Lorric, you severely overestimate the amount of violence in America. I mean, it's more violent than other democracies, but it's still not the ****ing wild west.

[BrotherBryon]

Heard a radio news report on the way home that stated that the shooter did in fact have to force his way into the school. So short of having armed police officers stationed in elementary schools there doesn't seem to be much else the school could have done. Oh and I agree with the Batman and Mongoose, last thing we need is a bunch of gun toting amateurs with no training running around shooting at any thing they may feel to be suspicious. Doesn't mean we need to restrict gun laws much further as it is pretty much a given that some one who wants a gun is going to find a way to get one. The thing we need to fix is the notoriety these assholes get when they decide they want to take their own lives in the messiest most sadistic way possible so that others will remember or take notice of them.

Quoting myself to emphasize the point, pay particular attention to the last sentence as it is the most important. Gun control isn't the answer especially in a country where there are already so many weapons around. The problem lies in the motivations of the ones committing these barbaric acts of violence and no having more guns or less guns isn't going to stop them from doing what they have already decided to do. It would be the equivalent of treating a sympton and not the disease, take away the gun and the would be assailent will find another means to carry out their plan. Maybe through a bomb or knife take your pick bottom line is we need to find a means of stopping the appeal for these nut cases to attack public places such as schools and malls.

[Apollo]

An unarmed man can potentially fight off an unskilled knife user, but an unarmed man stopping an unskilled gun user would be virtually impossible under most circumstances. Also, there are many weapons and tools (Shovels, baseball bats, hammers, axes, etc.) that are nearly as effective--or, in the case of the  axe, and hammer--superior to a basic knife and could be used to defeat a knife user. No common weapon comes anywhere near the effectiveness of a gun, making someone with a gun far more dangerous than someone with a knife.

I understand it won't be easy, but we need to stop these nutjobs from getting firearms. After all, there will always be people who want to murder others--nothing society does will change that.

[Dilmah G]

I'm not sure exactly how one would've been able to prevent access to the firearm to the perpetrator, seeing as they purchased by his mother. Perhaps background checks ought to take account of one's family too? In Australia for instance, it's a condition that weapons be stored in a safe that meets a list of specifications, one of which I believe is that it's only accessible to the person the firearms are registered to. As has been mentioned before, the failing here was with the mental health system, as opposed to the firearms laws.

[JCDNWarrior]

First of all, condolences to all the people that lost loved ones in this horrible event. I wish no one would have to experience something so tragic and shocking like that, especially the little ones in that school.

I'll probably be all over the map with this post, but I feel its good to try to cover all the bases a little, my apologies beforehand if the result is a little chaotic.

In my opinion, any laws that pertain to gun control are basically victim disarmament as the criminals won't turn their guns in and will still manage to get their hands on such hardware. I feel appalled to see how much of the 'mainstream' US media almost immediately called for gun control or restrictions of rights without even giving proper time for people to grieve and honor the dead, blaming the tool used rather than the individual that committed said crimes. I wonder if these stations realize that they lead by example, and how much trouble it causes when one calls for things to happen out of sheer emotion rather than rational debate and research on such a big platform like TV news media.

These recent shootings seem, to me, to reinforce two major points: society is degenerating slowly but surely, like loss of morals and honor ("better to drown yourself than hurt the little ones") and lack of understanding and support, or 'catch-nets' for the (mentally) downtrodden to help them back on the tracks and to become more positive, not just medicate the heck out of people without regularly checking up what effect it has on such patients, also deficiencies in things like good nutrients can cause havoc on brain and mental functions too... lots of things to consider in regards to health and mental care.
Second point: economic woes and uncertainties (fiscal cliff, QE infinity, bailouts, foreclosures, on and on) that also bring people to the point where they lost the will to live but for some psychological reason seek to perform a massacre so their suicides would, in their minds, 'mean' something. It's like the most extreme 15-minutes-of-fame to perform.
It makes me wonder what role the whole entertainment, celebrity culture might have in the depressions of such individuals too, in conjunction, if they would go so far as to kill so many innocent children like that. To adhere to all the new fads and styles in order to feel good or accepted is unaffordable for most.

On a hopefully little bit more positive note, when looking per capita especially compared to all those official numbers of unemployment, debt and downturns, I suppose one could be thankful there haven't been even more big shootings and violent unrest the past year(s) given what the US (and world) economy is going through, though in other words there's a chance we've seen nothing yet in that regards if the economy and society in general continues to decline. We might see something similar or bigger, or many small things happen around the 21st because of all the end-of-the-world hype being another 'trigger' for peoples on the edge to perform suicides or even massacres in a copy-cat fashion due to the massive reporting involved.
Hope everyone will be alright and that this wave of shootings will disappear instead of precipitate or get even more frequent.

[Lorric]

I personally support tighter gun control laws, primarily as a means to root out sociopaths and unstable people (perhaps a personality test?). Given our rate of gun deaths I'd think we would already have implemented tighter policies, but every time someone tries politicians and pundits (mainly conservatives) go "OH **** THE SECOND AMENDMENT CONSTITUTION BLAH BLAH BLAH!" and ruin any chance of useful debate.

However, I do believe that private citizens who aren't dangerous should be able to purchase and conceal handguns, because I don't want the government to be the only one with weapons.

Lorric, you severely overestimate the amount of violence in America. I mean, it's more violent than other democracies, but it's still not the ****ing wild west.

You will not catch sociopaths with personality tests, since they will lie. And there are no better liars than sociopaths.

I'm not sure why you think I think America is the wild west. I said Americans are slaughtering each other with guns by the dump truck load. 11,000+ bodies could fill dump trucks I would think.

I do however think guns have become seen as a "problem solver" by some, rather than the lethal weapon of last resort it should be.

[Lorric]

In my opinion, any laws that pertain to gun control are basically victim disarmament as the criminals won't turn their guns in and will still manage to get their hands on such hardware.

You would think so. There was a rash of knife murders in the UK some years back. There was a real public backlash against it, but one thing that was done, was that the police offered to take in weapons no questions asked. Not a law, you only hand them in if you want to. A vast number of weapons were handed in, and knife murders dropped dramatically.