[karajorma]

So I seem to be in the position of needing a new main PC and need some recommendations.

1) I need a laptop. I change jobs somewhat often and may move hundreds if not thousands of kilometres mostly using trains when I do so. I certainly can't be lugging an entire desktop with me. If I ever leave China I don't fancy the idea of being without a PC for however long it takes them to ship it to the UK. A laptop also has the nice advantage of surviving the occasional power cut without the need for a UPS.
2) Size of the laptop is fairly important. Bigger the better as although I need something can move, I tend to only move my laptop a few times a year and I have a much smaller one for the times I need to be mobile. My current system has a 16" widescreen so that size or bigger would be nice. I'm definitely not interested in going below 15"
3) This is going to be my main PC and it's doubtful I'll have the cash to upgrade for several years. So it has to still be capable of running FSO in debug mode in 3-4 years time. I have the cash to splurge now but if I don't spend it soon(ish) I'll spend it on wine, women and song anyway.
4) Since FSO is CPU limited (especially on Debug) more CPU power seems to be vital. A good graphics card is also a must. Lots of memory would be nice. HD space is fairly low on the list of priorities. I have external drives for much of my data so the internal one is just for installing games and programs. I have an external DVD drive so I can totally skimp on that feature.
5) I'll either be buying the machine in the UK (within a few weeks) or China (now or in a month from now). So links to US sites are useful as background info only.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

I got an HP EliteBook 8570w recently, and am quite happy with it. It's my second HP 'mobile workstation' laptop, and so far (4.5 yrs) I never ran into any hardware troubles - they're quality builds. (As opposed to my brother's HP Envy, which constantly overheats when gaming.)
Of course, the quality comes at a price, but then again the machine may well last twice as long as a consumer-level laptop would. Depends on what you're looking for in a machine.

Specs are customizable to a certain extent, but here's mine:
CPU:   Intel i7-3610M (Ivy Bridge: 22nm), quad-core with hyperthreading. 2.3 GHz, 6MB Cache
SCREEN: 15.6", 1920 x 1080
GPU:   NVidia Quadro K1000M, 2GB DDR3, 192 CUDA cores. OpenGL 4.1.
RAM:   2x4GB DDR3 @ 1600 MHz
CAM:   720p HD built-in
HDD:   500 GB, 7200 rpm
DVD:   DVD+/-RW

Oh, and they still come with Windows 7 according to the HP site. Which you may or may not find a good thing

[Scourge of Ages]

I'd like to second the recommendation of an HP Elitebook. I don't have any specific examples, but the professional-grade HPs tend to have a very good record.

[Kopachris]

Check out https://www.system76.com/

Big, powerful, runs FSO just fine, and if you've never run Linux before, I think you'll find it quite refreshing.  Great development platform.  Of course, you didn't mention any price limitation, so I'm assuming money is no object...

Come to think of it, I think I'll try saving up for one myself.  (It's only $3,000...)

[SypheDMar]

You can also try looking at Sager's laptops, which System76 seems to be a rebrand of. Check out their gaming laptop section.

http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.php?page=category_browse&selected_cat=11

[karajorma]

I'm absolutely not switching to Linux on my main desktop machine. And I think $3000 might be a little out of my budget even if I am willing to splurge a bit.

If I'm buying mail order though I'd have to get them to ship to China, not the UK unless they have a UK branch. I have no intention of buying a computer and having it delivered the day after I have to leave to go back to China.

Since responses have been slow, maybe I should ask what are the minimum specs I should be looking at for a laptop that won't quickly get out of date?

[Luis Dias]

Come on Kara, you don't know the answer to that one?

You should aim for at least 8 GB, i7, a good graphic chipset, etc. Watch out for heat-loving laptops that will burn your machine to smithereens (I learned that the hard way... ). That's the biggest problem. And battery. You might think that 3 hours is enough, but then that degrades and you can really wreck your computer if you keep it plugged in to the wall while with the battery (yeah I know). Check the forums on the internet where they discuss these things at lenght.

Oh and avoid HP cheap models like previously said. My two cents.

[karajorma]

Come on Kara, you don't know the answer to that one?

Actually I don't. I decided long ago that trying to keep up to date with which hardware is current is a losing battle since I simply don't have the time to keep up to date. Trying to find the answers on the internet is useless as there are simply too many sites dedicated to the subject and many of them are full of screaming dickwads (or worse, dickwads who aren't currently screaming and therefore don't give themselves away).

So when I buy hardware I ask someone who does know. Cause there are plenty of people on HLP who do care about hardware and do know these things.

You should aim for at least 8 GB, i7, a good graphic chipset, etc.

You've basically told me the real basics anyone would know and managed to miss out any of the useful information I wanted. What is a good graphics chipset these days? Which i7? Are the more expensive models worth the extra cash? Would it be better to simply spend the money on 16GB rather than a slightly faster CPU.

[Luis Dias]

Sorry then I won't be much of an help. However, just to say that those final questions are not universal. It entirely depends on what you use the computer. For instance, I use programs that usually cross the 5GB barrier of memory size, while my CPU use isn't that important. You'd guess where I'd invest there. But gather this simple advice: do not underestimate the quality build. It is like 100x more important in laptops than in desktops (where we can just add stuff we choose).

[FreeSpaceFreak]

Which i7? Are the more expensive models worth the extra cash? Would it be better to simply spend the money on 16GB rather than a slightly faster CPU.

I would suggest that you monitor your current computer's resource usage during common resource-intensive activities (for your case probably compiling and gaming, and possibly more?). Is your compiler multi-threaded? In that case an i7 (with hyper-threading) may well be worth the buck. If not, an i5 may actually suffice, and save you a considerable amount of money. Keep an eye on the processor generation; for the Intel i*-series, 3rd-gen is currently the state-of-the-art. For single-thread performance, high clock speed and processor cache are desirable.

With RAM relatively cheap, capacities will probably keep going up quickly in the coming years, so chances are that programs will follow. With that in mind, 8+ GB RAM may be a good choice. But especially graphics hardware seems to be booming, so I suggest making a good future-proof investment in that department (I've been told that upgrading a laptop GPU is non-trivial). As for which manufacturer, FSO players with AMD cards seem to have driver issues more often than NVidia users, so I'd go with the latter. They also have better Linux support, but that doesn't apply here.

[Scourge of Ages]

Buying a new laptop is a very, very tricky process because there are so many different ones and new ones being released constantly. If you start with only the specs you need, you're going to get lost. We can't really give any specific advice on models beyond, "Hey I bought this and it's great and cheap" or "I bought this and it's crappy and expensive". Or we could just pick one for you, but where's the fun in that?

So here's my advice as someone who recently purchased a couple used laptops:
1) Choose a brand of laptop first.
2) Check their website store to see what the newest released machines are, and see if any of them fit your general required specifications and price range. If they seem too expensive, go backward in release time if you can.
3) Once you've found a few models that might fit, then you can start comparing them. To figure out the specs for the processors, you can find the information charted on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Intel_processors
4) To compare the graphics cards, I'm a bit at a loss. Look for reviews on pcmag.com, tomshardware.com, and gpureview.com or anywhere else you trust.
5) To compare everything else, you can read and understand the specs yourself. Stuff like RAM, HD space, wifi, etc is easy to figure out.
6) When you've narrowed the field to fewer than 6 candidates, try to find reviews for the specific laptop models you chose, or at least the model family. See if there are any glaring issues like crazy heat, worse than expected performance, spontaneous combustion, that sort of thing. Sometimes certain models will just be unusually lousy, and the only way to know is to own one yourself or hope somebody reviewed it.
Then you can compare prices on the brand webstores, ebay, amazon, their regional equivalents, and places like newegg or similar places in the UK.

Some more detailed personal recommendations:
Brand: Toshiba or HP Pro/Elitebook
Processor: Intel i5 or i7, which one doesn't much matter, the specs do (though i7 might be more efficient, and is more likely to be quad-core). Check the Wikipedia pages to see their exact specs. If you want one with a dual-core, probably should get at least 2.5GHz per core. For a quad-core, you can relax a bit on that, 2.2-2.3GHz per core. Either way, they'll run a bit warm. (Sorry, I don't know AMD, so you'd have to find their wiki pages for info)
Graphics: If you get a quad-core i7, an intelgrated GPU could actually work pretty well. The i5 in my 2760p runs FS2 very well, though I haven't done any intensive missions yet. Check the reviews and specs for whichever discrete card is offered.
Memory: At least 6GB, 8-12 is better of course, but most machines you can add the rest if there's RAM slots open. That should be information on the computer specs page.
HD: You'd know best. 160GB at bare minimum, 320GB better, and so on...
Other features: good built-in wifi is so common in every single new machine, you almost don't have to check. You need 802.11 g/n at least. An HDMI-out port/Displayport is nice, but hardly necessary. Same for Firewire and ESATA, unless you use those to hook up your external HDs.

[KyadCK]

Come on Kara, you don't know the answer to that one?

Actually I don't. I decided long ago that trying to keep up to date with which hardware is current is a losing battle since I simply don't have the time to keep up to date. Trying to find the answers on the internet is useless as there are simply too many sites dedicated to the subject and many of them are full of screaming dickwads (or worse, dickwads who aren't currently screaming and therefore don't give themselves away).

So when I buy hardware I ask someone who does know. Cause there are plenty of people on HLP who do care about hardware and do know these things.

You should aim for at least 8 GB, i7, a good graphic chipset, etc.

You've basically told me the real basics anyone would know and managed to miss out any of the useful information I wanted. What is a good graphics chipset these days? Which i7? Are the more expensive models worth the extra cash? Would it be better to simply spend the money on 16GB rather than a slightly faster CPU.

Make sure the i7 is a QM model. If it doesn't say QM, it ain't a real i7. A higher clock speed i5 will probably be worth more to you then an i7, just make sure it has 4 cores.

I figure 650m or better is good, but it gets pricey. Intel's HD4000 is not enough for anything more then office.

I would say 8GB is enough, but I honestly have no clue what you do. Regardless, RAM is cheaper to upgrade yourself then to get them to do it, CPUs are not. You can pick up a good set of low-power 4x4GB laptop ram for like $70, it's not exactly a big issue.

An SSD is good for speed and battery, but like RAM it's cheaper to do it yourself. If the laptop has 2 HDD bays, get a nice HDD with it and pop in an SSD later.

Don't jip out on a good wi-fi card, pretty obvious reasons.

Backlit keys are your friend. They aren't your best friend ever, but it's a nice thing to have. Same for a 9-cell battery.

If you have any specific questions I'll try to answer them, but that's the basic guide to laptops atm.

[karajorma]

Okay, I'm looking but a few questions have started appearing.

A friend recommended trying out Medion's offerings and I must say the machine he pointed me at doesn't look bad, but then I know very little about laptops. What Laptop magazine seemed to like it though. Is it as good as it seems?

Also I tried comparing the specs for an elitebook against a similarly spec'd Alienware machine and for the most part the Alienware machine came out on top. Aren't they supposed to be hideously overpriced?

[JCDNWarrior]

I personally prefer to look for build-to-order type laptops and ran into this one:

http://www.xnotebooks.nl/17-18-notebooks/turbine-iv17-17inch-gaming-laptop-notebook-gtx660-hd4000-optimus-w370et.html

815 euro is just the basics, I'm certain when you're done it'll be about 950 euro though you'll have some good extras for that money.
I'm not too sure if they ship to Great Britain but perhaps a similar priced and specced machine can be found over there.

Also, do know that Intel is coming with the Haswell series in Q2 2013 if no delays are made. It'll be a architectural change (the tick-tock system) so they might be able to make considerable performance gains with that.
But then again, perhaps it's never a bad nor a good time to purchase any computer hardware, as there's always going to be a new generation, another good deal, or a sudden price change around a corner.

Anyhow, hope this helps a little bit in finding what you're looking for.

[Mikes]

I personally prefer to look for build-to-order type laptops and ran into this one:

http://www.xnotebooks.nl/17-18-notebooks/turbine-iv17-17inch-gaming-laptop-notebook-gtx660-hd4000-optimus-w370et.html

"Turbine" ... is that what it sounds like? lol.

Sadly... with a very few rare exceptions, pretty much all of the socalled gaming laptops have ****ty, often outright idiotic cooling concepts, especially with the companies who just slap all that hardware into a barebone and put their sticker on top of it. Usually you end up with a laptop that either overheats/throttles or sounds like a jet engine during takeoff...  heck... often they do both.

Be wary when choosing a "gaming laptop". Simply going by the "specs" of the hardware / price is a folly.

[KyadCK]

I personally prefer to look for build-to-order type laptops and ran into this one:

http://www.xnotebooks.nl/17-18-notebooks/turbine-iv17-17inch-gaming-laptop-notebook-gtx660-hd4000-optimus-w370et.html

815 euro is just the basics, I'm certain when you're done it'll be about 950 euro though you'll have some good extras for that money.
I'm not too sure if they ship to Great Britain but perhaps a similar priced and specced machine can be found over there.

Also, do know that Intel is coming with the Haswell series in Q2 2013 if no delays are made. It'll be a architectural change (the tick-tock system) so they might be able to make considerable performance gains with that.
But then again, perhaps it's never a bad nor a good time to purchase any computer hardware, as there's always going to be a new generation, another good deal, or a sudden price change around a corner.

Anyhow, hope this helps a little bit in finding what you're looking for.

"Released" in Q2 (as late as july basically), with it not actually being used for another month and not used well for another after that. Takes time to adopt new tech, especially in laptops. Long time to wait.

As for the build-your-own guys... Can't pick a better vid card, only thing holding it back.

Okay, I'm looking but a few questions have started appearing.

A friend recommended trying out Medion's offerings and I must say the machine he pointed me at doesn't look bad, but then I know very little about laptops. What Laptop magazine seemed to like it though. Is it as good as it seems?

Also I tried comparing the specs for an elitebook against a similarly spec'd Alienware machine and for the most part the Alienware machine came out on top. Aren't they supposed to be hideously overpriced?

Elitebook/Precision are not gaming comps. They get workstation (Firepro/Quadro) GPUs, not gaming ones, and are designed to be mobile workstations. They're going to cost an arm and a leg.

If you want something that will top Alienware, look at Sager, or ASUS I believe made those massive gaming laptops that could actually cool something.

As for the laptop you picked out... I can not speak for build quality as I have never seen the brand before, but the 680M is a big boy GPU. Here's a quick list of games and the FPS they got: http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5914/nvidia-gtx-680m-performance-new_575px.png

The 3630QM isn't a slouch either. 2.4Ghz might be slow, but FSO is single-thread so you'll get to use the max turbo on that core at 3.4Ghz.

I would frown at the 750GB, but it's paired with a 128GB SSD, so I'm not going to complain. 16GB of RAM, probably 1333 due to costs but might be 1600, these guys seem to be going all out.

1080p LED backlit screen, good. I was half expecting an IPS based on the specs, but sadly not.

Bluray reader, Intel wireless, 9-cell battery.

This thing looked decked out, it's hard to find pre-built laptops with that level of parts in it. The only concern I would have is the build quality of the laptop in question, and how well it cools the parts. There is YouTube for these things though, and I'm sure you can find some reviews on it somewhere.

[karajorma]

Google searching didn't find me any reviews for that particular model but other Medion laptops were getting pretty high ratings (4.5/5 or 5/5) and one was recommended on What Laptops 4 best gaming laptops section. So hopefully the build quality on this model isn't too bad either.

That suggests I'll be getting a machine in the UK in early Feb then. So if anyone can think of something better for the same price, you have about a month to convince me otherwise.

[Mikes]

Google searching didn't find me any reviews for that particular model but other Medion laptops were getting pretty high ratings (4.5/5 or 5/5) and one was recommended on What Laptops 4 best gaming laptops section. So hopefully the build quality on this model isn't too bad either.

That suggests I'll be getting a machine in the UK in early Feb then. So if anyone can think of something better for the same price, you have about a month to convince me otherwise.

Budget brands are, for above mention reasons, more than problematic as far as gaming laptops go.

Medion is one of the cheapest/crappiest brands you will find after looking long and hard for the cheapest/crappiest brand.

So, good luck with that... you will need it. lol.

Again... don't just go by "components" when buying a gaming laptop. Or at least, if you do, be aware of what you are getting into.

[karajorma]

Why do you say that? Pretty much every review I've seen has been positive.

[Mikes]

Why do you say that? Pretty much every review I've seen has been positive.

Googled Medion + built quality yet?

Also... over here Medion is (in)famous for being one of the few laptop brands being sold in discounters, due to its price.
(i.e.: In Germany the whole "Medion" brand is known as the "Aldi PC". Aldi being one of our major discounter chains... the cheapest of the cheap... they usually don't sell PCs or laptops ... but if they do, it's Medion lol.)
It was one of the first brands that I vowed to never buy as I researched my first laptop purchase... untold horror stories of built quality issues, quickly failing accessories like trackpads, keyboards, usb ports, etc. (which is a little more than annoying on a laptop.). And you can pretty much forget about sensible noise/thermal management with those machines. Heck... I remember a post about some "highend model" (few years ago, granted) where people complained that the plastic would deform in a spot due to bad heat management.

Seriously... as far as "cheap/crappyness" goes Medion is in a league of its own.

Even something mainstream like an Asus would look like a Ferrari next to that.


Sorry... don't want to diss your choice... but I seriously doubt you would be happy with that. Not longterm anyways.

Also... , once you picked a brand/model, I would recommend to take a long hard look at forums/owner's clubs and known issues instead of blindly trusting reviews that often heavily weigh performance (i.e. all those silly benchmarks) over something like built quality, thermals, noise or longevity. A reviewer rarely uses a given laptop for more than a week, usually less than that...   you can bet that those reviews would look different if every reviewer had to rely on a given laptop for 1-3 years as their main computing device LOL.