[qwadtep]

So the "Great Darkness" is apparently classified as a "worm", maybe that's some hint towards it being sort of a Nagari-parasite?

If Nagari is analogous to a computer network, wouldn't the "worm" be a computer virus, lurking in the quantum pulse? Laporte is just a puny human and is driven insane by an imperfectly-translated version. If it infected an advanced, collective mind like that of the Shivans or Vishnans, able to comprehend its entirety and ready to burn the universe...

[An4ximandros]

Ya know... for some reason. Battuta's old comment about BP's Ancients being different. Me rewatching their Cinematics on Youtube and reading the above post made me come up with a random theory: The GD is an Ancient super weapon.

 Someone mentioned on a thread that: In AoA we play as a Vishnan avatar. In WiH we play as a Shivan avatar. What if BP3 has us play... an Ancient avatar? You were raised by a secretive Vasudan sect to fulfil the last will of the Ancients, destroying the Universe through their master weapon: The Great Darkness!

 Then, at the very end we get to chose between three endings:

- Allow the Great Darkness to consume the Cosmos.
- Unleash the Shivans, to destory the GTVA and submit to their will.
- Allow the Vishnans to "absorb" all cognitive capable life, turning it into a single, all pervading, organism. :b

[qwadtep]

If the Ancients had such a superweapon they wouldn't have gotten whacked by the Lucifer. The Great Darkness is probably whatever destroyed the Brahmans, kept at bay by the Procedure to prevent another cosmic apocalypse.

[-Norbert-]

Not necessarily. Maybe the Ancients unleashed it in the hopes that it would annihilate the nagari network and thus prevent the Shivans from sensing them (Ken said that the Nagari network was the Shivans' "hunting sense"), but it was either too weak to take down the entire network, or the Shivans and/or Vishnans somehow managed to counter it, but were unable to completely purge it.
Not that I believe that the darkness really is that... I'm just saying it's not impossible.

As for it being responsible for the Brahmans death.... maybe it's the other way round. It coult be the result, rather than the cause, of the Brahman's death.
Maybe the death of millions of nagari sensetive people damaged the network resulting in the "creation" of the darkness within the network.
Or something a little like the Chaos gods in Warhammer 40K. An amalgamation of negative feelings that accumulated somewhere in the nagari network and reached a state where it can "move" around in the network and is drawn toward similar emotions or someone thinking about it.

[An4ximandros]

 On a more serious post...

 We know from 'Ken' that the Brahmans made some sort of blunder, it was that mistake that unleashed the deepness that stalks the cold roads. A conclusion to be drawn here, is that the Brahmans created something while ignoring it's possible repercussions.

 The word Blunder might have been better chosen that I though, as it could mean the Brahmans refused to see *something* could be dangerous.

[Drogoth]

"external heuristic injection: mandate node severance fallback. force binary isolation/extinction outcome"

Two important things, the first one I didn't notice until now. Cutting Sol off from the GTVA was not an accident; the Shivans did this intentionally. It seems it was a fallback plan... fallback to what, exactly? Ken admits the Shivans accomplished their mission in the Great War: to kill us, or force us to really unite (xenocultural integration). Would the Terrans and Vasudans have returned to war eventually if the Sol node weren't cut off (or did the Shivans predict that)?

Secondly, and more importantly: "external heuristic injection". Laporte notices this. Something told the Shivans that it would be a good idea to do this- something outside their own protocol. Could it be, or be related to, the Great Darkness?

Something jumped out at me about this.

I do believe it applies to earth. I don't believe it has to do with united or warring terrans and vasudans.

Here is my theory:

The external injector is the Vishnans. They have set a mission. Eradicate the terrans and Vasudans OR Force an isolation. Either is acceptable. The Shivans, still dutiful gardeners at that time, carry out the directive.

The Vishnans visit Alpha 1 with visions about the ancients, ('so this is our legacy - in subspace they cannot use their shields, and into subspace they can be  tracked') and I dont think it's too far of a stretch to say they arranged for the Vasudan scientists to discover the ancient records on Altair. This gave Alpha 1 the tools necessary to destroy the Lucifer when it attacked earth, giving him the potential to force an isolation.

Vishnan objective: Create ubuntu. They judged that required an isolated home system. So, that's why the Shivan armada fell into disarray after the Lucy was destroyed. One of the acceptable mission outcomes had  been achieved, and so they allowed the rest of their fleet to be mopped up and destroyed. Mission was accomplished.

Fast forward to AoA and the Vishnans are now radically against a cull. Their isolation experiment has succeeded in nurturing enightenment. They were willing to accept extinction as an option before, but now they are too close to whatever their goal is. Also the relationship between the shivans and vishnans has changed since the GW.

My two cents. But that's my interpretation of the Great War 'External heuristic'

[An4ximandros]

 Except that now they seem to be all for a cull, in 'Ken' the node constantly repeats that it's getting a cull order... and reprioritizing it so that it won't get carried out.
Two ideas come out of that 1) The Shivans are disobeying to give Laporte a chance. 2) Ken is the one subverting those orders.

 Ubuntu was not a Vishnan creation, but something they saw potential in, and worked to make happen by any means. It was already semi-underway thanks to the GTA program for a better future (I forgot it's name.)

[Drogoth]

Except that now they seem to be all for a cull, in 'Ken' the node constantly repeats that it's getting a cull order... and reprioritizing it so that it won't get carried out.
Two ideas come out of that 1) The Shivans are disobeying to give Laporte a chance. 2) Ken is the one subverting those orders.

 Ubuntu was not a Vishnan creation, but something they saw potential in, and worked to make happen by any means. It was already semi-underway thanks to the GTA program for a better future (I forgot it's name.)

Semantic mistake on my part. They saw its potential and made sure it happened. I still think the above analysis of the heuristic is sound, allthough if other holes can be shot in it, fire away.

I was also doing more thinking. Which I think may explain why they want a cull.

I'll try and describe it in a legible manner, sometimes my mind works faster then I could put things into words. Sorry if it's kind of chaotic.  It's all of course straight off the top of my head in the last 30 minutes, I may be (probably am) WAY out to lunch. But here goes.

Okay so: The Vishnans say something about owning the walls of the universe, and those who cross them. It was mentioned earlier they maintain the walls around the Multiverse (maybe keeping the GD out) but I imagine the also control the walls BETWEEN universes. In fact that seems likely in how they threw the 14th BG through a ringer.

Now, it also seems possible they could create a divergent universe through a binary event. We see an alternate one in AoA that diverged at an unknown point. My premise is this: That is not that divergent universe. That is the original. The control if you will. Ours is divergent.

The Vishnans saw potential in ubuntu. But only potential. It wasn't a slam dunk. But it was something they wanted to explore, to experiment with. So what did they do? They partitioned the universe where the Lucifer gets destroyed into a separate one. Henceforth I will refer to it as the Lab universe.

I imagine they have created lab universes in the past, and when their experiments failed, the ordered a cull, and the Shivans cleaned it up.

But then the non-isolated Terrans of the Lab universe built a portal. They threatened to break the isolation and destroy what the Vishnans deemed 'enlightenment' so they sent the 14 Battlegroup back to the True Universe to try to influence them into stopping the war (AoA). The Shivans in the True Universe understand that this is the control universe. There will be no experimenting with survival here, which is why they attack the 14th. They are then enraged when the Vishnans will not reveal the purpose with which they brought the 14th back into the True Universe at all, and reject their directives. The Vishnans arrange for the 14th to return and hopefully prevent the war.

This fails. Their experiment has failed, a war between humans is that failure. They order a cull. Except now the Shivans refuse.

Something went terribly wrong in the Lab universe. The Vishnans were too focused on Earth and nurturing enlightenment there - they only addressed the GTVA in so far as it may have threatened that design (The 14th BG, etc). What they didn't account for was GTI and Aken Bosch. When he used ETAK to contact the Shivans he fundamentally changed the relationship between to two super species. The Shivans now have their own objectives in the Lab universe, rather then just clean up when the experiment fails. They obviously don't regard their objectives in the Lab Universe as lost yet. So the Vishnans repetitively demand a cull, and the Shivans refuse.

[AndrewofDoom]

If that's the case, what's stopping the Vishnans from performing the cull themselves? They more than likely have the firepower to roflstomp both the GTVA and the UEF in no time.

My only real guess is that the Shivans would fight in defense of the Terrans and Zods.
I prolly answered my own question...maybe. There might be more to it than that.

[Drogoth]

If that's the case, what's stopping the Vishnans from performing the cull themselves? They more than likely have the firepower to roflstomp both the GTVA and the UEF in no time.

My only real guess is that the Shivans would fight in defense of the Terrans and Zods.
I prolly answered my own question...maybe. There might be more to it than that.

The Vishnans certainly engaged Shivan forces to defend their plan in AoA. So it's probably safe to say that if the Shivans don't want there to be a cull, they would intervene much in the same way.

[TheDemon]

Here's another question: do the Zods count as cull targets?

Everything I get from the fiction I'm given is that the Zods are more advanced, more prosperous, and more in-tune with the truths of universe, than the human side of the GTVA. Having done this without a homeworld, they've become children of the stars in every sense. They also don't fight in the current war.

Our perspective is naturally human-centric. Humanity has been the focus of both Blue Planets and likely will continue to be as long as the series bears a reference to our homeworld in its name. Being human too, we identify readily with them. But having survived two culls, the Vasudans really ought to have a part in the Vishnan/Shivan cosmic plan, for one faction or the other or for themselves. That the emperor has taken in Nagari sensitive advisors and decided to maintain a separate navy to the GTVA shows, in my opinion, that Vasudan leadership is following their own plan re: Nagari and re: a possible third Shivan incursion.

References:
http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/rift.html
http://blueplanet.hard-light.net/nagari.html

I've yet to see someone bring up a full argument as to where they fit in, though. Which alien faction provided 'The Jester' with the vision of an upcoming apocalypse? The result of this vision was a powerful and independent Vasudan navy. Which alien faction was interested in promoting this outcome? And what was the nature of this apocalypse? Having survived the destruction of their homeworld, frankly, I'm not sure what kind of fear would scare a Vasudan 'veteran of the nebular campaign' so ****less that he needed medication to regain his faculty of speech.

[Drogoth]

I've yet to see someone bring up a full argument as to where they fit in, though. Which alien faction provided 'The Jester' with the vision of an upcoming apocalypse? The result of this vision was a powerful and independent Vasudan navy. Which alien faction was interested in promoting this outcome? And what was the nature of this apocalypse? Having survived the destruction of their homeworld, frankly, I'm not sure what kind of fear would scare a Vasudan 'veteran of the nebular campaign' so ****less that he needed medication to regain his faculty of speech.

Maybe he glimpsed the GD

[An4ximandros]

 My guess would be the Shivans, given their impact on the Vasudans and apocalypse cults such as the Hammer of Light.
 But given their outlook of time and other characteristics, they resemble the Vishnans a lot... perhaps the Vishnans had something in mind for the Vasudans. One thing we know is that we have no future with the Vasudans, thus spake Carlosh.
 Or perhaps that is why the Shivans want to destroy the GTVA, divide it into the Vasudans (for safe keeping) and the GTA, for purging or absorption into the UEF, which as dialogue notes, admires the Vasudans and their culture (at least the elders do.)

And yes, he did see the deepness.

Edit: Sleepy now, as such my faculties are degraded but, after reading some bits of Zoroastrianism, some ways to... interpret Ahriman and the Daevas have made me curious. I will post more tomorrow, but some people might be interested in making searches about the subject in the meantime.

[-Norbert-]

Considering the Greenfly sleeper in the dreamscape it's quite possible the Jester's visions were not "provided" by either side.
Maybe he's just a natural nagari-sensetive (or a secret experiment of the Vasudans themself) and just happened to "dream himself into" one of the simulations either the Vishnans or Shivans ran on possible futures by accident/coincidence.

[borizz]

I might be a huge pussy, but I don't even dare replaying Universal Truth, let alone turning around. That mission was seriously scary.

[Crybertrance]

I might be a huge pussy, but I don't even dare replaying Universal Truth, let alone turning around. That mission was seriously scary.

Welcome to the club!  

[qwadtep]

I might be a huge pussy, but I don't even dare replaying Universal Truth, let alone turning around. That mission was seriously scary.

It's worst the first time through due to the shock value. Not to say there isn't all sorts of creepy stuff you miss the first time, either.  Lots of secrets. Lots of fractals.

[Qent]

If that's the case, what's stopping the Vishnans from performing the cull themselves? They more than likely have the firepower to roflstomp both the GTVA and the UEF in no time.

They don't know about Ken, though, so they're happy to let the Shivans do it.

[Crybertrance]

I might be a huge pussy, but I don't even dare replaying Universal Truth, let alone turning around. That mission was seriously scary.

It's worst the first time through due to the shock value. Not to say there isn't all sorts of creepy stuff you miss the first time, either.  Lots of secrets. Lots of fractals.

Lots is an understatement... 

[An4ximandros]

 I was a coward at first, but I decided to replay to see what happens when you stay behind at the end... Needless to say, I will never sleep soundly again. I guess it did it's thing.

 I haven't turned back at the Great Darkness, but I've seen it's face! Thanks FRED.

 Has anyone gotten the ending in which Laporte takes her skin off? Or the one in which she kills her squadron?

 Also: I am surprised some of those fractals are not shock images on the Net, seriously. I like to call the green face fractal " The fractal of Sin" it reminds me of Doom for some reason.