[Gray113]

Lopez and the Carthage battlegroup were broken. It is stupidity to use a damaged asset when there are replacements available that are far more suited to the task and so Steele in other circumstances would be answering difficult questions on his own conduct during the battle. No doubt these would come up at any subsequent courtmarshal.

[General Battuta]

Lopez and the Carthage battlegroup were broken. It is stupidity to use a damaged asset when there are replacements available that are far more suited to the task and so Steele in other circumstances would be answering difficult questions on his own conduct during the battle. No doubt these would come up at any subsequent courtmarshal.

The whole point of the battle was to avoid commitment.

[Gray113]

made it out on the Hermes escape pods

I must say that I took great pleasure in slaughtering those escape pods whilst remembering the Yangtze. It made accepting the surrender that bit easier.

[Gray113]

The whole point of the battle was to avoid commitment

So why put an emotionally compromised leader in charge of the evacuation?

[General Battuta]

The whole point of the battle was to avoid commitment

So why put an emotionally compromised leader in charge of the evacuation?

Because her ship was right there.

[Buckshee Rounds]

made it out on the Hermes escape pods

I must say that I took great pleasure in slaughtering those escape pods whilst remembering the Yangtze. It made accepting the surrender that bit easier.

I hope for the next release they put a warcrimes meter in the hud with ascending milestones like Idi Amin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc.

[Gray113]

Best.............. idea............... ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MatthTheGeek]

Lopez and the Carthage battlegroup were broken. It is stupidity to use a damaged asset when there are replacements available that are far more suited to the task

1) Carthage and its battlegroup were definitely combat-able. Watch how they wrecked a direct assault from a full CruisRon and a Karuna while under constant artillery barrage.

2) Other assets were being prepared for Steele's final assault. Deploying them to assist Neptune would be loosing precious momentum, as they'd need repairs and resupply again afterwards.

[Gray113]

Watch how they wrecked a direct assault from a full CruisRon and a Karuna while under constant artillery barrage.

A CruisRon and Karuna that for some reason did not have fighter cover (didn't really understand the start of the mission) whilst the Carthage was protected by fixed beam cannons and AWACS.

Deploying them to assist Neptune would be loosing precious momentum, as they'd need repairs and resupply again afterwards.

Serkr team was on standby to engage the Toutatis, deploying them against the artillery would have forced the UEF to withdraw.

[General Battuta]

Your two 'not understanding' questions there answer each other. 

[Gray113]

Ok then the points I am making is that Lopez was emotionally unstable due to the previous losses and should not have been in command of the mission. The fact that she was left in command is explained as: hers were the only forces on station and Steele didn't want to slow his build up by deploying more assets. Fair enough but that would not stand up in a military tribunal. Lawyers would pick holes in the decision to place her forces in harms way and ultimately the blame for the loss of the Carthage would go back to Steele.

The fact that her battle group was able to beat back an ill planned assult is to her credit however they were unable to make headway against the artillery, only hold them off meaning that if they pulled out then the stations crew would be lost. As long as the artillery was in the Field then the Toutatis was not going to commit and there was no possibility of an interception therefore is it not entirely unreasonable that Steele could have instead used Serkr to take out the artillery which would in itself finish of third fleet as an effective fighting force. This could then have saved the day for the GTVA forces and allowed the evac to continue without further loss.

Steeles failure in Neptune can be accounted to his decisions more so than Lopez. When the courtmarshal comes then I doubt that she would get much worse than an honorable discharge.

[Aesaar]

Or it could have resulted in Calder bringing in the Toutatis because Serkr was already on the field and committed.  Which in turn could have led to the loss of Serkr over a useless installation.

[Gray113]

Serkr have sprint drives - they could get out before Calder could do much damage

[MatthTheGeek]

A CruisRon and Karuna that for some reason did not have fighter cover (didn't really understand the start of the mission) whilst the Carthage was protected by fixed beam cannons and AWACS.

Wait, since when did they not have fighter cover. It's not because it's all gone when you arrive that they were never there ?

Serkr team was on standby to engage the Toutatis, deploying them against the artillery would have forced the UEF to withdraw.

1) The Narayana had their drives ready. Serkr wouldn't have had time to kill them.

2) Deploying Serkr against the artillery would probably have left another critical target wide open for the Toutatis to attack. Subspace chess, remember ? Re-read the briefing of this mission. Steele wants to avoid escalation before he is ready for the big battle. Especially if escalation doesn't happen on his terms.

3) They are deployed against the big T if you've ****ed up because for Steele, such an opportunity to destroy the big T is more important than keeping the strategical momentum. Steele can definitely afford loosing a couple days prepping Serkr again if the big T is out of the equation.

4) A Solaris down would be much more a major blow to the UEF morale (and leadership, if Calders goes down with the ship) than two more artillery frigates, of which the UEF has already lost many since the beginning of the war. The Vikrant and Toreador simply don't hold a comparable strategical value than the big T.

Serkr have sprint drives - they could get out before Calder could do much damage

Yes, and Steele would have lost momentum again, for no gain.

The fact that she was left in command is explained as: hers were the only forces on station and Steele didn't want to slow his build up by deploying more assets. Fair enough but that would not stand up in a military tribunal. Lawyers would pick holes in the decision to place her forces in harms way and ultimately the blame for the loss of the Carthage would go back to Steele.

You underestimate Steele's charisma and influence. Remember we're talking about one of the most powerful man in the GTVA, someone that could dictate terms to Tocqueville. The GTVA is more concerned about winning Sol than holding a trial against him, especially when he's the only man that can give them Sol fast enough. Whatever arguable strategical decisions he may take, they can overlook them, as long as the situation in Sol is finally resolved. And he'd get a few medals afterward, too.

[General Battuta]

Deploying Serkr would have been strategic and tactical suicide with the Toutatis air wing, the Toutatis itself, and the Eris waiting to pounce on any opening. The mission itself shows you the only circumstances under which Steele is willing to commit Serkr - the Toutatis is on the field and its air wing is badly degraded.

[Gray113]

Yes, and Steele would have lost momentum again, for no gain

The lives in board the station would have been the gain, in this mission (if done properly) there is no threat to the Toutatis as it doesn't need to be deployed - hell the second time I did it the option did not even come up because both my frigates were over 70% when the Carthage surrendered.

[General Battuta]

There was no way for Steele to commit forces to save Neptune HQ without suffering greater losses elsewhere. The correct move from a utilitarian standpoint was to get as as many people as possible out of there - the position was being abandoned anyway - and then withdraw the Carthage.

[General Battuta]

You can actually see, if Serkr arrives, that they've been involved in fighting elsewhere and were rapidly repositioned to take advantage of the Toutatis' weakness.

[MatthTheGeek]

Yes, and Steele would have lost momentum again, for no gain

The lives in board the station would have been the gain, in this mission (if done properly) there is no threat to the Toutatis as it doesn't need to be deployed - hell the second time I did it the option did not even come up because both my frigates were over 70% when the Carthage surrendered.

The lives in the station are less important to Steele than keeping the strategical momentum. Which is why he ordered Lopez to retreat before the evacuation was complete.

[Gray113]

if Serkr arrives, that they've been involved in fighting elsewhere and were rapidly repositioned to take advantage of the Toutatis' weakness

Never saw that, i didn't call in calder when I played the mission so I should probably play again to see it.