Author Topic: again on joystick control...  (Read 1985 times)

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again on joystick control...
Hi guys, I started playing Diaspora few days ago. I'm having the same issue that is treated in this thread: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=82400.0 (Since it's old, I followed the advice to post a new topic).

I found myself much more confortable flying a Raptor, because it's a heavier ship and controls reactions are less amplified than Viper's. So I would like to set Viper's rotdamp parameter to get closer to a Raptor-like behaviour. Is that possible? Can someone tell me what file  I should look for and what parameter to tweak? Or at least link a tutorial/wiki webpage? Thank you!

ps: I'm using Saitek P880 gamepad...

 

Offline newman

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Re: again on joystick control...
It's possible, but honestly not a good idea - getting used to it is a much better one; you'll need the viper's maneuverability to survive. The gamepad also isn't the best choice for this type of game - unless you have a real joystick, I'd advise sticking to the mouse.
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Tingil

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Re: again on joystick control...
For me the answer was to reduce the joystick's dead zone, so it would become more sensitive in the central area. Before that it was virtually impossible to hit a raider with auto-aiming turned off.

 
Re: again on joystick control...
I played with deadzone and sensitivity settings too, but I couldn't work it out. Actually I can aim to a target very precisely if I turn very slowly (so the problem is not related to deadzone). But when I'm required to perform quick maneuvers during dogfights I always overshoot my target.

Since Newtonian physics has been partially implemented in Diaspora, I think my issue is related to inertia. I'll try to explain: when you want to change direction, you push hard your analog control (joystick or gamepad), and the corrispondent truster fires. But when you start releasing the stick, the same truster simply decreases its firing power accordingly to the stick's position. But this doesn't actually stop the movement, because the truster (i.e. RX truster for a left turn) is still pushing and there is no compensation from the opposite truster (SX in this case), which would force the movement to stop almost instantly.

So, I'm afraid the solution would imply to re-write the control scripts, in order to force trusters' compensation ignition. Let's suppose I am pushing a left turn (RX truster is firing): I'm currently pushing the stick to the left (-255 on x axis). While my nose is getting closer to the target I start releasing the stick. The stick is still in the left half of your x axis but now, actually, it's moving towards right (-200... -170... -140 etc), so the imput relative value is increasing. And this is the moment in which the compensation ignition should start: when the imput relativevalue start increasing! Not when it becomes positive (that would mean that your stick has entered the right side of the axis). Of course, trusters' compensation should be stronger when the imput absolute value is higher.

Theoretically I think this would work, resulting in a better handling. But I don't know how to translate this into code. I'm not so skilled, sorry! Is there anyone who can do it?

 

Offline jr2

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Re: again on joystick control...
If that was implemented, it'd probably have to be a feature that could be turned on or off as some would prefer the more realistic handling.

 
Re: again on joystick control...
I understand what you mean, but, actually, such a feature would be even more realistic.
Let's consider a single impulse applied along one direction. The current game's physics' rules provide that the ship will keep on moving in that direction untill the applied force persists. Then it will decelerate untill stopping, as it would happen in athmospheare. If you want to block the movement before, you have to apply an opposite force by pushing the joystick in the opposite direction (in this way, ship's movement would block even if Newtonian Physics was fully implemented). My suggestion was to anticipate the thruster's compensation ignition to the moment in which the stick's absolute imput value starts decreasing, or, from a different view, before the relative imput value change from "-" to "+" (and vice-versa). In this way, every ship's movement would be modulated via thrusters, without waiting for inertia to (unrealistically) blow over (exept the case in which you are moving straight foreward using the main engine)...

I hope I have effectively explained what I ment, despite my english isn't so good for such technical subjects...

 

Offline newman

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Re: again on joystick control...
Yes, ships have simulated inertia. Getting used to that is part of the fun. I have no problems hitting targets with autoaim while playing with a joystick. Training yourself so you can compensate for the moment of inertia when turning your ship is a part of it and it's perfectly possible to hit tiny targets without autoaim when you get used to it. Like I said, a gamepad wasn't really designed for games of this type and isn't an ideal choice - if you don't want to go buy a joystick just for this game (can't blame you), you'll find aiming much easier with a mouse. Even so, flying in this game does take some getting used to and it takes skill, but you won't get better at it by hacking the game so it's easier for you :)

Start with the easiest difficulty and work your way up. You'll feel better about yourself once you manage to beat it without cheating. And seriously, give the gamepad a rest, this isn't Gears of the Great Cylon War :)
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 09:43:53 am by newman »
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 
Re: again on joystick control...
My intention was not to cheat, belive me. But the fact I find myself to wobble up and down three or four times before getting alligned with the target is frustrating. It takes so long to score a single hit, let alone to shoot down someone...

As far as the gamepad is concerned, it performed quite decently with airplanes sims, like Strike Fighters/Wings over Vietnam (by ThirdWire). Actually they were not ultra-realistic simulations but certainly comparable to Diaspora. That's why I hoped it would work with this game too. Finally, the gamepad is portable: I use to travel a lot between my home city and university so I don't think I'm going to buy a joystick. But well, I'll follow your advice, I'll give the mouse a try... thank you!

 

Offline Wobble73

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Re: again on joystick control...
If the British and American Forces can fly a UAV with an Xbox gamepad, why not use a gamepad? If it's good enough for them it' s good enough for me.  :p
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Offline newman

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Re: again on joystick control...
Fair enough, I can't say I actually tried it with a gamepad myself, since a) I don't own one and b) I do have a full HOTAS setup. But I can't say I experienced any wobbling with my joystick or when flying with the mouse, so I thinksaying the gamepad's probably the culprit here is a fair enough assumption. And yes, sticks aren't all that portable, but mice are. Like I said, never experienced any difficulty in aiming or steering with either a stick or the mouse, for what that's worth. And I still think either solving the issue or moving to a better / more suitable controller is probably better than hacking the table files. Gamepads are designed for different sorts of games, maybe the drivers are set up to do something with the analog input that works great in TPS/FPS kinds of games but causes issues in sims like these.
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 
Re: again on joystick control...
If the British and American Forces can fly a UAV with an Xbox gamepad, why not use a gamepad? If it's good enough for them it' s good enough for me.  :p

well, when I was a kid I used to fly RC models, that is somehow what UAV actually are!  :p This is also a reason why I play with the gamepad: the basic control layout is the same as a radio controller...


 

Offline StarSlayer

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Re: again on joystick control...
I haven't tried Diaspora with a gamepad but I've played some console flight games and it should be doable.  Sans a trackIr the dual sticks work pretty well for assigning one to control surfaces and the other to pilot look.

Course the authentic way to play Diaspora is to open up your wrist and slide some Cat5 up there.
“Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world”

 
Re: again on joystick control...
Quote
I haven't tried Diaspora with a gamepad but I've played some console flight games and it should be doable

I played several sims with gamepad on both playstation and pc. I assure you it is doable...

Quote
Course the authentic way to play Diaspora is to open up your wrist and slide some Cat5 up there.

I'm sorry... I care of my veins too much to try! But, actually, my TOASTER has a aluminium silver skin and a red timer dial... maybe... with a cat5...  :v-old:  :D

 
Re: again on joystick control...
Ok, guys, I tried to play with mouse and I must say Newman was right, it is quite better than the gamepad. Thank you all!

 

Offline newman

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Re: again on joystick control...
Glad you found a workaround, hope you can enjoy the game now.
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb