Author Topic: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...  (Read 12489 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
No one was speaking in absolute terms, but in relativistic. Battleship and Transformers better than Avengers.

Where did the term 'better' get used?

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
My paraphrasing isn't that out of sync with your words up there. I do understand that if one becomes like an archaeologist of interesting, queer, untested, original ideas, Avengers is perhaps the last place one should go.

But in that sense, so was Casablanca.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
There's some interesting stuff to read out of Avengers, particularly in the way the movie takes big ideas from other superhero films and goes all 'no big deal' about them - The Dark Knight made a huge melodramatic fuss about cell phone surveillance, so Avengers builds some of its casually fascist subtext by just dropping the line that they're tapping every cell phone on the planet, no big.

But most of what the Avengers has to say speaks to failures of directorial vision. The whole helicarrier crash jeopardy sequence in particular is an exercise in brainless visual framing - picking apart the shot blocking is an exercise in frustration because it's so obvious how easy it would've been to do it better.

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
Just for curiosity, how would you depict it, given that it is so obvious? (I am *not* being sarcastic, although the phrasing does seem like it)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
Well - and this is going to sound so obvious people will probably argue with it, but I'll hold to it - what's the most important thing to establish visually in an action sequence where the jeopardy is 'a huge aircraft is falling out of the sky?'

You do a top down shot of whatever the aircraft is over, right? You want the audience to know (at least a little) what it's going to crash into when it falls, both so we're aware of the reality of The Ground as an approaching deadline, and so we can worry about the helicarrier crushing little houses/people/fishes/whatever. You only need one quick shot to do this. But instead the shots we get during this sequence generally depict CGI cloudscape; there's not even a ticking altimeter shot to build tension.

These are cliches, of course, but they work! Film uses visual language to tell stories!

From a script standpoint I'd also question the necessity of saving the helicarrier at all - I think the heroes need to fail as punishment for their disunity and proof of Loki's menace, and SHIELD needs to be taken mostly out of the story for the remainder of the movie (they are anyway, but with much less justification). But that's a separate class of issue.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
Heh, Battleship. Man, that movie...
Despite the widespread and well-founded criticism, I did find a very interesting theme and message there. The problem with finding meaning in movies like that one with so many problems, is that you can't be sure if the meaning was put there intentionally or not.

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
Heh, Battleship. Man, that movie...
Despite the widespread and well-founded criticism, I did find a very interesting theme and message there. The problem with finding meaning in movies like that one with so many problems, is that you can't be sure if the meaning was put there intentionally or not.

That's not actually a problem at all

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
I assume that is related to the death of the author.
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
That's not actually a problem at all

Eh, I suppose you're technically correct (the best kind of correct) that the meaning found is unrelated to whether it was intended or not.

But I can't help wondering and finding additional meaning in the possible difference between "subtext cleverly hidden by skilled writer/director in generic action film" and "subtext accidentally inserted by generic writer/director in generic action film".

 

Offline Al-Rik

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
I have different reasons to see a film.

Some films I just watch because I get hooked up by the look of the film. (For example Sucker Punch or Iron Sky).
Some films I just watch because I find the Story interesting. That story doesn't have to be 100% correct if the film isn't a documentation ( and Argo doesn't claim to be one ), the story has just to be told in a good and solid way.
And some films I just watch because I liked an actor and his play. I liked the Ironman Films, and I liked Captain America. And by the acting of the cast of The Avengers I can't complain about that movie.

 

Offline deathfun

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
I watch movies because I've nothing better to do

Also Bat, I never noticed that in The Avengers. Crazy (the whole lack of a doom, DOOM tension thing)
"No"

 
Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
That's not actually a problem at all

Eh, I suppose you're technically correct (the best kind of correct) that the meaning found is unrelated to whether it was intended or not.

But I can't help wondering and finding additional meaning in the possible difference between "subtext cleverly hidden by skilled writer/director in generic action film" and "subtext accidentally inserted by generic writer/director in generic action film".

well the convenient thing about authorial intent is that you can deny its relevance whilst still conflating your own, subjective analysis of the work with authorial intent
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
subtext

The thing about subtext is that it's in the mind of the reader, not the text itself. Denotation is universal. Connotations are personal.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
Reminds me of the U571 fiasco. Hollywood made a movie about how they captured an Enigma device and made it look like the US were the first to do it. When the UK complained about this they said 'If you care so much, why didn't you make a movie about it?'. In response a bunch of British comedians stated they would make a movie about how the UK were the first people on the Moon. Hollywood got angry. Guess what the response was? ;)

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
Reminds me of the U571 fiasco. Hollywood made a movie about how they captured an Enigma device and made it look like the US were the first to do it. When the UK complained about this they said 'If you care so much, why didn't you make a movie about it?'. In response a bunch of British comedians stated they would make a movie about how the UK were the first people on the Moon. Hollywood got angry. Guess what the response was? ;)

U-571 was hilarious.  I didn't read anything about it in advance and just went to see it with a bunch of friends in theatre.  It was only after about 3/4 of the way through that I actually realized the movie was about the original capture of Enigma and totally butchered history.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Offline Lorric

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
Reminds me of the U571 fiasco. Hollywood made a movie about how they captured an Enigma device and made it look like the US were the first to do it. When the UK complained about this they said 'If you care so much, why didn't you make a movie about it?'. In response a bunch of British comedians stated they would make a movie about how the UK were the first people on the Moon. Hollywood got angry. Guess what the response was? ;)

Oh yes! Here's your movie poster, and the star of your show!  :D

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Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
u-571 closed with a list of the ACTUAL missions to break the enigma code and who carried them out.  it wasn't claiming american credit, it was a movie for entertainment.  and for right now, not having seen argo, i'm assuming likewise. 
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Offline Lorric

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
u-571 closed with a list of the ACTUAL missions to break the enigma code and who carried them out.  it wasn't claiming american credit, it was a movie for entertainment.  and for right now, not having seen argo, i'm assuming likewise.

Where though? At the end of the movie, or in the credits? (Haven't seen it). If it's in the credits, I bet very few people will see it.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: I really hope 'Argo' doesn't win a single Oscar...
Reminds me of the U571 fiasco. Hollywood made a movie about how they captured an Enigma device and made it look like the US were the first to do it. When the UK complained about this they said 'If you care so much, why didn't you make a movie about it?'. In response a bunch of British comedians stated they would make a movie about how the UK were the first people on the Moon. Hollywood got angry. Guess what the response was? ;)
I'd pay good money to see that movie, honestly. :D