[An4ximandros]

Flip the PS4 over using real time weapon switch and attack it's exhaust for massive damage.

 Ahem. Honestly speaking, I just don't give a damn about consoles anymore. They have become a hassle with all the new DRM and what not. I'll stay with my PC. I already have to deal with it here, so console-'ing' has no use to me anymore.

[Nuke]

from what ive read of the specs this will be a typical pc with a more draconian than usual os

[Scourge of Ages]

Fineeeee, so it has 2 more gigs of ram, and 2 more DDRs too.

And twice the cores as my current PC. Don't know the clock speed though.

My big question: will this make prices of the PS3 go up or down? I needs to buy Shadow of the Colossus.

[Klaustrophobia]

i can't see how release of the ps4 could possibly make the ps3 price go up.

[An4ximandros]

 Mass migrations back to PS3 after 4 falls flat on it's face?

[Scourge of Ages]

That. And if there's no backward compatibility, there may be a rush of people snatching PS3s before they stop production. Actually, maybe that won't happen... Are they still making new PS2s?

[Swifty]

from what ive read of the specs this will be a typical pc with a more draconian than usual os

It's not. It has unified GDDR5 memory which is a lot more memory bandwidth than the system memory of a PC with DDR3. It also has the CPU and the GPU soldered on the same chip.

Simply put, you can't just merely get a PC with similar specs on paper and expect it to run the same PS4 games with the same performance. At work, we don't even use OpenGL as the PS4's graphics API because it has too much overhead. We use something much more low level.

[achtung]

I'm glad to see AMD getting some serious leverage somewhere. I hear Durango is going to be AMD-based as well.

[deathfun]

I'm glad to see AMD getting some serious leverage somewhere. I hear Durango is going to be AMD-based as well.

Shame the cell didn't go anywhere

Although, the change from the cell does explain the inability to go backwards game wise.

[ssmit132]

Actually, maybe that won't happen... Are they still making new PS2s?

I did some research on them a few weeks ago (as I was considering purchasing one so I could get legitimate games rather than emulating) and learned that production of PS2s ended at the start of this year. I actually had no idea that they were still in production myself.

e2: OMG the rage this is gonna get:

Lastly, personalization. "Key design principle of the PS4 interface." System learns your likes and dislikes, shows you things you'll like. "Long-term vision is to reduce download times to zero... if we know enough about you we know what game you'll purchase next and download it in the background."

Well, that's nice for those of us who are given a data limit on their Internet.

[Swifty]

Shame the cell didn't go anywhere

Although, the change from the cell does explain the inability to go backwards game wise.

Cell was a huge mistake. It was entirely predicated on the notion that third party developers would be reluctantly crawling to the PS3 as if they didn't have a choice. As if the Xbox 360 and it's ease of development didn't exist. Sony's decision to go x86-64 is basically Sony admitting that maybe we need to actually make a platform that developers would actually want to be on. I know a lot of developers that are very happy with what they got.

[deathfun]

Shame the cell didn't go anywhere

Although, the change from the cell does explain the inability to go backwards game wise.

Cell was a huge mistake. It was entirely predicated on the notion that third party developers would be reluctantly crawling to the PS3 as if they didn't have a choice. As if the Xbox 360 and it's ease of development didn't exist. Sony's decision to go x86-64 is basically Sony admitting that maybe we need to actually make a platform that developers would actually want to be on. I know a lot of developers that are very happy with what they got.

Indeed. It's also nice that Sony is man enough to say that they made a mistake, even if it wasn't directly said
Apparently though, they asked developers what they'd like to see from next generation

[Nuke]

from what ive read of the specs this will be a typical pc with a more draconian than usual os

It's not. It has unified GDDR5 memory which is a lot more memory bandwidth than the system memory of a PC with DDR3. It also has the CPU and the GPU soldered on the same chip.

i dont think its soldering as much as it is wire bonding. where hair thin gold wires are melted straight to the pads on the semi-conductors. aside from that minor nitpick, sticking the gpu on the same die is cpu is how intel's integrated graphics manages to have pretty good performance despite modest capabilities. data takes time to move and less distance means less time wasted in moving it.

Simply put, you can't just merely get a PC with similar specs on paper and expect it to run the same PS4 games with the same performance. At work, we don't even use OpenGL as the PS4's graphics API because it has too much overhead. We use something much more low level.

thats nice to know. console game development have always stayed as close to the bare metal as possible to squeeze every drop of performance out of the system. when combined with hardware that is actually faster than pc you might actually get better looking games on a console than you can get on a pc. unfortunately i tend to frown on the closedness of consoles and probibly wont get one.

[Spoon]

Cell was a huge mistake. It was entirely predicated on the notion that third party developers would be reluctantly crawling to the PS3 as if they didn't have a choice. As if the Xbox 360 and it's ease of development didn't exist. Sony's decision to go x86-64 is basically Sony admitting that maybe we need to actually make a platform that developers would actually want to be on. I know a lot of developers that are very happy with what they got.

When you look at Microsoft's failed way of doing business in Japan and the huge success the PS2 was, it sort of makes sense that Sony had that mindset at the time though.

[Mikes]

thats nice to know. console game development have always stayed as close to the bare metal as possible to squeeze every drop of performance out of the system. when combined with hardware that is actually faster than pc you might actually get better looking games on a console than you can get on a pc. unfortunately i tend to frown on the closedness of consoles and probibly wont get one.

Let's see how that 500$ console compares to a proper 1500-3000$ gaming PC before getting excited.

Then ... 1-2 years later... let's see how appeals that same console is next to that same PC... that now costs less than half as before lol.


The whole point of consoles is low price mass market penetration. Whatever quality advantage they may attain, if they ever attain any at all, will always be short term and limited to the budget segment.

[Gray113]

PC gamer built a comparison PC for £430 at current tech levels. When the consol actually comes out what are the chances of this coming in under £300?

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/21/pc-gamer-vs-playstation-4-theres-only-ever-going-to-be-one-winner-right/

[The E]

Let's see how that 500$ console compares to a proper 1500-3000$ gaming PC before getting excited.

That's easy. The console will (on paper) be less powerful and less versatile, but be easier to set up and maintain, while at the same time being able to use the power it does have more efficiently.

Then ... 1-2 years later... let's see how appeals that same console is next to that same PC... that now costs less than half as before lol.

Is that true though? Does PC hardware still depreciate in value that fast? I know that that was true ten years ago, but it seems to me that things have slowed down quite a bit since then.
(Also, the Console will still be more straightforward to set up and maintain while the games available will make increasingly better use of the hardware, whereas the PC will still be underutilized in all but the most extreme setups).

The whole point of consoles is low price mass market penetration. Whatever quality advantage they may attain, if they ever attain any at all, will always be short term and limited to the budget segment.

I don't think that's quite right. PCs and Consoles occupy different pieces of the gaming pie; Owning a PC does not preclude you from owning a console. While you can make games of all genres for all platforms, some genres have historically been more successful on different machines; I don't see that changing in this generation.

Ultimately, I believe that the question of which system has the better hardware is irrelevant. Given enough time, the PC will always have the bigger numbers (of cores, of transistors, of frames per second, whatever), but the Consoles will still be able to be competitive because noone can be bothered to target the theoretical high-end PC market.

The question, for me, is not "Will this 500 Euro Console be able to keep up in the Hardware race with a PC that costs three times as much?", it's "Are there enough games coming out on that platform that I want to play but that aren't available on PC so that buying the Console is justified?".

PC gamer built a comparison PC for £430 at current tech levels. When the consol actually comes out what are the chances of this coming in under £300?

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/21/pc-gamer-vs-playstation-4-theres-only-ever-going-to-be-one-winner-right/

Aaahahahahahahaha

Yeah, no.

Several things missing there.

1. No BluRay drive (I see his rationale for excluding this, and I would agree, were it not for the fact that the PS3 sold as well as it did partially because it was and still is one of the best BR players on the market!)
2. Getting a case and a PSU on 50$? Suuuuure. Because those are going to be quality pieces of tech.
3. No operating system.

I mean, the PC I am building is closer to the PS4 spec, and it costs ~600 Euros (and that is without the Bluray and OS!), with the extra costs being caused by using a better (i.e. more reliable) mainboard and PSU.

Also:

Who cares if Uncharted 3: Drake’s Colonic or Wet Rain don’t appear on the PC, have Sony got Antimatter or PlanetSide 2?

I DO! Because Uncharted is pretty damn cool, and a kind of game you don't see very often on PC. I don't know if PlanetSide 2, good as it may be, is an adequate substitute.

[Gray113]

1.Blu-ray ain't that importiant when you can download Blu-ray quality for cheaper than buying disks and quicker than going to the shop.
2.Yes Sony build quality is really reliable... 
3. Linux 

[The E]

1.Blu-ray ain't that importiant when you can download Blu-ray quality for cheaper than buying disks and quicker than going to the shop.

I see you live in a happy land where net connections are fast and unmetered, and where you can get the entire content (Film and bonus materials) that is on a typical BR delivered via the net. Good for you.

2.Yes Sony build quality is really reliable... 

Yes, in my experience, PlayStations have been very reliable indeed. I had a launch PS2 that survived for 8 years of heavy use, and a slim PS2 that still works like a charm. At any rate, the build quality will be massively better than any case/PSU combo you can get for 50$.

3. Linux 

And this is the part where I have to tell you that you are taking an undefendable position. I am aware that the Linux gaming situation is about to change, but for the moment, Linux is only an option if you have no interest in big AAA titles like the ones we see on Windows or Consoles.

[Kopachris]

Though I love Linux and PC power, I have to agree with The Great and Powerful E.  Besides: consoles and console games are easier to give as gifts (e.g. birthday, Christmas), since they're so much easier to set up.