Author Topic: Idea: Viper Mk II B  (Read 10879 times)

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Hello guys,
Sorry for not responding for some time, school is throwing a lot of work my way.
I took your advise about the mapping procedure, but when I tried it I encountered some problems in my model. Seems like I had some defects in my model that I did not know how to fix.

So it was back to the drawing Board for me. Well the first time making this model was a good learning experience. As you will notice, I have added a cockpit frame and a bit of a cockpit 'pit'. It wont be long before I will add the turret and guns. I still have to figure out how to make the turret without making a mess of my model again.

I am thinking to make a version with as main armament 2x30mm cannons or a version with 6 or 8x0.50 Cal MG's. Maybe both. I have yet to decide.



I am also thinking of changing the engine exhaust shape back to the more 'organic' shape instead of the round one. I kinda liked the shape. And to think that back then I was trying to make a round exhaust   ;) . As you can see I also added the 'heat shield' around the exhaust again. It is not really a shield but this is the word that comes closest to it. I really liked this feature. It makes this model more scyfi looking...













Please let me know what you think.
A voice from the dark called out and said: Smile and be happy, things could be worse. So I smiled and was happy, and things did get worse...

 
The tail fin is just begging to be shot to bits by the tailgunner.
planes like that had a special interrupter gear (the gear that timed the machine guns with the propeller so they didnt shoot their own propeller) that was designed to work with the tail instead of the propeller.

and i would love a tail gunner, as those damn cylons always get me from behind.

 
Re: Idea: Viper Mk II B
The tail fin is just begging to be shot to bits by the tailgunner.
planes like that had a special interrupter gear (the gear that timed the machine guns with the propeller so they didnt shoot their own propeller) that was designed to work with the tail instead of the propeller.

and i would love a tail gunner, as those damn cylons always get me from behind.

You would still be vulnerable from the underside. And a gunner would only disperse the attackers. Shooting them down is a lot harder.
A voice from the dark called out and said: Smile and be happy, things could be worse. So I smiled and was happy, and things did get worse...

 
Re: Idea: Viper Mk II B
Isn't the roll time on Diaspora fighters negligible anyway
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline newman

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Re: Idea: Viper Mk II B
You would still be vulnerable from the underside. And a gunner would only disperse the attackers. Shooting them down is a lot harder.

TBH, I find the design a bit awkward, due to trying to cram a rather large turret on a fairly small spaceframe. What I would do instead is elongate the viper a bit, make it a two seater, and make a small rear turret on the underside that is controlled from the gunner's position inside the cockpit. Yes, you can have a system in place that prevents you from shooting off your tail, but it comes at a price of significantly reducing your firing arc, creating a blind spot exactly where you don't want it - on your six. This would make the turret a bit useless since most of the attacks would come from the rear - and I assume the turret would come at a price of something else (acceleration, maneuverability, or whatever). So you really want it to carry it's weight as opposed to being dead weight :)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 03:59:34 am by newman »
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Idea: Viper Mk II B
 :yes:

 
Re: Idea: Viper Mk II B
You would still be vulnerable from the underside. And a gunner would only disperse the attackers. Shooting them down is a lot harder.

TBH, I find the design a bit awkward, due to trying to cram a rather large turret on a fairly small spaceframe. What I would do instead is elongate the viper a bit, make it a two seater, and make a small rear turret on the underside that is controlled from the gunner's position inside the cockpit. Yes, you can have a system in place that prevents you from shooting off your tail, but it comes at a price of significantly reducing your firing arc, creating a blind spot exactly where you don't want it - on your six. This would make the turret a bit useless since most of the attacks would come from the rear - and I assume the turret would come at a price of something else (acceleration, maneuverability, or whatever). So you really want it to carry it's weight as opposed to being dead weight :)

Newman, thanks for your feedback on the concept, it is appreciated.
As I stated before, I intend to make it a sort of fast strike bomber with limited anti fighter capability.
Think of it as a WWII dive bomber. and they were not much bigger than a fighter.
And though your statement about the rear attacks is true, there is a tactic that was used.
The bombers would fly in formation so their guns would protect each other.

Indeed, 1 bomber is very vulnerable. 3 is better. But when you get 15+ bombers in close formation, you will have to use good tactics to attack and get through unharmed. And then you would not have much time to kill.
Stay in the formation to long and you will be shot to pieces.
And in dire need the bomber would turn away, giving the gunner a better shot.

And about the tail, maybe I make a V tail out of it... or a double tail like the BF 110 or the B25.
Everything is still subject to change.

And Ideas from you guys is allways welcome.

(sorry for my late reply. school is keeping me busy)
A voice from the dark called out and said: Smile and be happy, things could be worse. So I smiled and was happy, and things did get worse...

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Idea: Viper Mk II B
If you're dead set on keeping the turret where it is then why not do as Newman suggested: turn it into a two seater, make the turret remote controlled, but have it integrated into the tail, sort of like a ball bearing at the tail's base towards the rear. That way you can have your cake and eat it and the turret will have a 180 degree firing arc.

EDIT: Sort of like this -



Also, I don't see the Colonials going for a quantity over quality approach, that's more Cylon-esque if you ask me.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 10:40:16 am by Buckshee Rounds »

 
Re: Idea: Viper Mk II B
If you're dead set on keeping the turret where it is then why not do as Newman suggested: turn it into a two seater, make the turret remote controlled, but have it integrated into the tail, sort of like a ball bearing at the tail's base towards the rear. That way you can have your cake and eat it and the turret will have a 180 degree firing arc.

EDIT: Sort of like this -



Also, I don't see the Colonials going for a quantity over quality approach, that's more Cylon-esque if you ask me.


I see your point. maybe my approach is a bit cylony but I like it anyway.
Maybe I make another version with your idea. But for such a small craft it would give it an (maybe to big?) advantage on the rear but it would leave the topside vulnerable.
And a heavy turret in the tail is more something for a medium/heavy bomber, right?
Those things are way to heavy to even try to turn into the opponent.

Update on the progress:



Note the cannon shape. not perfect I know but I came close.










A voice from the dark called out and said: Smile and be happy, things could be worse. So I smiled and was happy, and things did get worse...

 

Offline festivefire

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If your going to put the turret where you have it in the latest model pic (which looks very good, the turret is less obnoxously large for a plane of that size compared to earlier pics) then you should go for an almost horizontal v formatoin tail, like an f-22's but a couple degrees flatter, to give the gunner a clear shot.
Digital Fire

 

Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Why not just put the tail where the turret is now and move the turret further back, that would give it clear firing arcs topside and rear. Plus it wouldn't break up the shape of the fighter so much as seen from the sides imho. You'd probably have to remove the spar thing set into the tail, but that doesn't seem like too much of a sacrifice.

 

Offline fightermedic

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any plans to continue this? i really like the design
>>Fully functional cockpits for Freespace<<
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Offline StarSlayer

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Are you planning on making this tube capable?  If not there are some interesting things you could do with the design.  I dabbled a bit with a Shinden style Viper for when Diaspora takes a crack at 1CW.  Basically a cheaper, more atmo friendly MK II alternative for the Colonial Marines.  A similar direction might work for yours as well. 

If you drop the central vertical stabilizer for a pair of smaller wing mounted ones you would create a better field of fire for your ball turret, shorten the profile considerably, plus remove the awkwardness of transitioning into the current F-4 style tail.  A set of canards on the nose might look nice and if you're feeling daring you could see if you could fit the third engine on the bottom in a reverse style of the regular Viper.  A larger wing plan for more ordinance might also not be remiss.  Of course the resulting bird would need to be launched from the flight deck, true but would be a sturdy fighter bomber.
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Offline newman

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From a purely technical perspective, the mesh seems quite messy on those shots - you need to pay a lot of attention to the position of vertices relative to one another; a cross section should be a clean form, without any "spikes" and "holes" if you know what I mean. So you don't get the "crumpled paper" effect..
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here! - Jayne Cobb

 
Hello guys,

Sorry for not responding for some time.
Unfortunately due to damage to my hard drive all data regarding this project has been lost :(.
And because I am very busy with real life it is unlikely that I can continue this project.

Maybe in the future I will restart but until further notice you can consider this project dead.
If anyone had any ideas from this project, feel free to use them.

Cheers,

Ghost
A voice from the dark called out and said: Smile and be happy, things could be worse. So I smiled and was happy, and things did get worse...

 

Offline karajorma

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Ah, the Modder's Curse strikes again. This is why I keep telling Diaspora devs to back up everything. You'd be surprised how often this particular event has set back projects here on HLP.

Hope you can fix it.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Ah, the Modder's Curse strikes again. This is why I keep telling Diaspora devs to back up everything. You'd be surprised how often this particular event has set back projects here on HLP.

Hope you can fix it.

I hope so too. You know what the trouble is, I had this stuff backed up. But that data was rendered useless for some reason.
Maybe when I have more time on my hands I will continue this project. perhaps in another form. For now, just refer to my post above.
A voice from the dark called out and said: Smile and be happy, things could be worse. So I smiled and was happy, and things did get worse...

 
A tailgun would be next to useless on a viper, the manuvering of the pilot would be so fast and sudden that I doubt the gunner would have time to compensate or get a good fix on his target.