[NGTM-1R]

Finally when it comes to MacArthur, there is a certain amount of responsibility the US has to face for not relieving him for disobeying orders. They could have done it much earlier.

Stalin could have relieved Zhukov of command any time he wished whether it was necessary or even wise.

Nobody could relieve Halsey of command when he deserved it after Leyte or the typhoons.

The military was not apolitical at the time, nor were its officers apolitical figures. It is in a large part MacArthur's lasting contribution to the US military that they cultivate that completely apolitical air they do now. MacArthur was a viable candidate to depose FDR in the '44 elections and some people argue the US liberated the Philippines to keep him from running. Similarly he was still a viable Presidential candidate during the Korea years, wielding considerable political clout and being possessed of allies in Congress and the press that would have made any attempt to remove him politically impossible. They couldn't relieve MacArthur earlier than that. His war record was superb, his management of the occupation of Japan had been all but divinely inspired in how well it had gone, and his political clout was immense.

MacArthur had to go above and beyond, into the realm of flagrantly and utterly impermissible behavior, to get relieved. Everyone knew it, including him, which is why he did the things he did. He thought he could get away with it.

The alternative is basically President MacArthur and we get him provoking nuclear war with China, so I'm going to have to strongly disagree with your analysis, because that was a very realistic possibility.

[karajorma]

I think you miss the point. I didn't say there wouldn't be consequences if they had done it. I said that the possibility was there. If for whatever reason the US were unable to remove MacArthur from power, they must bear responsibility for his actions.

Remember we're talking about a thread where we're blaming China for current day North Korea. If you're claiming that America couldn't remove MacArthur and therefore is absolved of their blame then China couldn't depose Mao either and therefore is also not guilty.

[NGTM-1R]

I think you miss the point.

No, I completely get the point. You don't get the point that relieving MacArthur before then could very easily hand him the Presidency of the United States and giving him absolute free reign.

You want him stopped but you haven't considered that doing so in the method and timing you want may not only be ineffective, but actually make the situation worse.

[Nuke]

didnt macarthur want to nuke the living **** out of anyone who got in his way?

[Beskargam]

ya

[Nuke]

we need more people like that.

[karajorma]

No, I completely get the point. You don't get the point that relieving MacArthur before then could very easily hand him the Presidency of the United States and giving him absolute free reign.

You want him stopped but you haven't considered that doing so in the method and timing you want may not only be ineffective, but actually make the situation worse.

Again you miss the point. The point under discussion is who is to blame for the state of Korea. If America got itself into such a position that their choices are MacArthur as president or MacArthur as crazy warmonger in Korea, how is that remotely China's fault?

[Dark Hunter]

Well, something is happening over there. Apparently there has been a sudden massive increase in NK deserters.

[NGTM-1R]

Again you miss the point.

Considering it's your point, as you're the one who chose to argue not relieving MacArthur of duty earlier as a contributory cause across several posts until it was clear that was an untenable argument, it's not even my point to miss, merely to illustrate it was handled as well as it could feasibly be handled at the time.

[Nuke]

Well, something is happening over there. Apparently there has been a sudden massive increase in NK deserters.

what they should do is build a burger king right in full view of the nk side of the border. lets see what that does to the nk desertion rates.

[karajorma]

Considering it's your point, as you're the one who chose to argue not relieving MacArthur of duty earlier as a contributory cause across several posts until it was clear that was an untenable argument, it's not even my point to miss, merely to illustrate it was handled as well as it could feasibly be handled at the time.

I have literally no idea what you are trying to say here. And if you're claiming that I argued that MacArthur could have been relieved without consequences over several posts (which is what it appears you're saying), you're having a severe reading comprehension failure.

MacArthur was not Bosch. He did not seize control of the forces in Korea and use them to his own end. He used those forces with the permission of his own country. MacArthur did not spend the entire Korean War out of contact with his superiors. The opportunity to relieve him was there even if it couldn't be taken. So his country must bear at least some of the blame for his actions.
 BlueFlames was attempting to shift all the blame to MacArthur. If however MacArthur was a rogue general acting without the approval of his country, he could have been relieved. Your arguments as to why he couldn't be relieved do nothing but strengthen my point that other Americans approved of his actions.

[Luis Dias]

Well, something is happening over there. Apparently there has been a sudden massive increase in NK deserters.

what they should do is build a burger king right in full view of the nk side of the border. lets see what that does to the nk desertion rates.

Ahh yes, hamburguers, the pinnacle of human cooking.

[Polpolion]

Well, something is happening over there. Apparently there has been a sudden massive increase in NK deserters.

what they should do is build a burger king right in full view of the nk side of the border. lets see what that does to the nk desertion rates.

Ahh yes, hamburguers, the pinnacle of human cooking.

considering how plentiful and cheap they are, they might as well be.

[achtung]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nbetNNW_2Dw

How North Korea views the United States, and probably most of the world.

I'm really enjoying my hot snow in my tent.

[Luis Dias]

I call Poe's Law on that one. The translation is somewhat suspicious , but it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.

[Apollo]

You know, even with all those problems it still sounds better than North Korea.

[Nuke]

for some reason i very much doubt north koreans are allowed to have tvs on which to watch propaganda.

[Lorric]

for some reason i very much doubt north koreans are allowed to have tvs on which to watch propaganda.

They've got TVs, but they can only watch state broadcasts on them. The TVs won't pick up anything else. I saw it on a documentary. There was something on the TV that had just been put on a continuous loop for ages, perhaps weeks.

[Nuke]

now the kicker. are they allowed to turn it off, ever?

[Luis Dias]

They are not allowed to ever close their eyes....