[deathfun]

Bullying is not the odd comment, or fight, or altercation.  Bullying is a chronic, persistent behaviour designed to demean another person and gain in social status of the self.  It is targeted and intentional.  Apollo seems to misunderstand the difference between bullying and normal human disagreement/aggression.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfVFe5CMSXQ

Great video about this

[Apollo]

Interesting video.

[Killer Whale]

Here's how I see it:
I went to a good school, because I was one of the "cool" kids. There was always a crew of people who were unpopular. If someone made a demeaning joke about someone else, sometimes I'd laugh. I wouldn't hang out with them even if they specifically asked me, despite being friends in class. I still don't reply to 90% of the hellos one guy says on steam chat because he's gay. I don't consider myself a bully because I never go out and try to put someone down. But it isn't the one guy who makes a joke at your expense, the one girl who calls you by a degrading nickname, or the one time you get beaten up because that dickhead is actually a blackbelt, no it's the bystanders who make your life a misery. Everyone looks down on you and views you as an acceptable target, and those people who don't think about you are worse than those who actively degrade you.
It is so, so easy to ignore someone, laugh at a joke or avoid someone, yet multiply it by many people and suddenly someone feels, quite rightly, that the world is against them.

[Luis Dias]

That Killer Whale's post is so full of wrong that I won't even bother.

Really, you don't reply to people because they're gay? WTF man grow the **** up.

And you actually believe bystanders are worse than the beating bully? JFC.

[General Battuta]

Maybe I'm reading it too optimistically, but it sounds like Killer Whale is criticizing himself for contributing to the culture of bullying.

[deathfun]

Maybe I'm reading it too optimistically, but it sounds like Killer Whale is criticizing himself for contributing to the culture of bullying.

That's how I saw it too

And you actually believe bystanders are worse than the beating bully?

Actually it makes sense. If the bystanders did something about the bully, there wouldn't be much of a bully now would there. Afterall, by not doing anything, you're effectively encouraging the behaviour instead of stopping it.

[Apollo]

Maybe I'm reading it too optimistically, but it sounds like Killer Whale is criticizing himself for contributing to the culture of bullying.

Yeah, I got that feeling too. There's just something rather... self-deprecatory about it.

[Killer Whale]

Maybe I'm reading it too optimistically, but it sounds like Killer Whale is criticizing himself for contributing to the culture of bullying.

Absolutely. These interactions are such a small part of my life that it's very easy to get them wrong. By not thinking about someone else's point of view I can, as you say, contribute to putting down a person. What I'm trying to say is if it was only the bullies putting you down and everyone else smiled, would be happy to hang out with you and pointed out the pettiness in a bully's actions there and then, your life would be a hell of a lot easier. But those people who don't realise that being unpopular isn't innate add up slowly to make life terrible, more than the active bully themselves.
Yes, a degree of homophobia is one of my greatest faults (well, I can't think of a bigger one), though it's far better than a couple of years ago when I was proudly homophobic. By saying I don't talk to him because of it is simplifying the issue. He was unpopular long before he was gay, and we used to have interesting discussions over steam chat (after he was "out"). But after he left the one class I had with him, whenever he messaged "hi" I'd feel that I really couldn't be bothered having this discussion and pretend I hadn't seen it. It was more because I was/am lazy, and no one really cared he was gay anyway, but I believe that if he was a popular, straight guy I would've been more inclined to keep it up, and hence I was in some way bullying my own friend.
No one says that I have a mean bone in my body, but I know I haven't got the hang of looking at other's points of view and those little things I don't think about can be really degrading to people.

[Apollo]

Yep. Bullies gain most of their power from the backing of the majority.

I don't have any moral objection to homosexuality, but I would still be uncomfortable around a gay man. This isn't just homophobia, though—I have a great fear that my lack of bigotry will lead to me being called gay.

[deathfun]

Meanwhile, when someone calls me gay, I offer to suck their dick for money
That generally ensues in hilarity and them not knowing how to respond

[Mongoose]

I don't have any moral objection to homosexuality, but I would still be uncomfortable around a gay man. This isn't just homophobia, though—I have a great fear that my lack of bigotry will lead to me being called gay.

That's...pretty much the definition of homophobia. Why would it be a big deal if someone called you gay?  And more importantly, who gives a **** about the opinion of anyone who'd call you "gay" in that context in the first place?

[Dragon]

Well, it's a different kind of homophobia. There are people who hate/are afraid of gays because gayness itself somehow offends them. What we have here is a fear of stigma associated with being gay. People generally prefer to associate with the majority. Since homophobia is considered "normal" in many places, people who have nothing against gays still (usually subconsciously) pretend to in order to fit in. I experienced that myself, despite the fact I'm not gay, I've found that one can fall victim to this simply by being different in any noticeable way.

[Aesaar]

I was bullied in high school, at it took me beating the **** out of the worst of them to get the others to finally leave me alone.  That experience, more than any other, is what taught me that the adage "violence doesn't solve anything" is complete and utter bull****.

Sucks being a science-fiction fan in a school small enough that you're pretty much the only one in your age group.

[Apollo]

I don't have any moral objection to homosexuality, but I would still be uncomfortable around a gay man. This isn't just homophobia, though—I have a great fear that my lack of bigotry will lead to me being called gay.

That's...pretty much the definition of homophobia. Why would it be a big deal if someone called you gay?  And more importantly, who gives a **** about the opinion of anyone who'd call you "gay" in that context in the first place?

If people seriously thought I was gay I'd lose almost all of my friends (only two of them don't hate gays) and my social status would be ruined for the rest of high school. I've also never had a girlfriend, which would in their minds be evidence of that.

[Lorric]

I don't have any moral objection to homosexuality, but I would still be uncomfortable around a gay man. This isn't just homophobia, though—I have a great fear that my lack of bigotry will lead to me being called gay.

That's...pretty much the definition of homophobia. Why would it be a big deal if someone called you gay?  And more importantly, who gives a **** about the opinion of anyone who'd call you "gay" in that context in the first place?

If people seriously thought I was gay I'd lose almost all of my friends (only two of them don't hate gays) and my social status would be ruined for the rest of high school. I've also never had a girlfriend, which would in their minds be evidence of that.

I have to agree with this. I'm not, but I've been taken for gay at school before, and even attacked because of it. I think the reason for it must be because it took me a long while to learn what the word actually means, I think I was in year 7 when I finally found out what it means so when people asked if I was gay, I said I was, because I thought they were asking if I was happy. I think it must have spread and followed me right through school. It really didn't do me any favours.

So here's a tip from one who knows all about it if you people ever have kids - teach them what the word "gay" means early! I told A LOT of people I was gay. I imagine word must have spread and they came to ask me themselves, and I told them, because loads of people asked me if I was gay, and I told them all I was.

Ignorance is not bliss.

What you don't know CAN hurt you.

It is funny to think back though on the occasions I returned the question.

PERSON: "Are you gay?"
ME: "Yes. Are you?"
THEM: "No."
ME: "Why?"
THEM: *looks at me funny*
ME: *confused*
THEM: *walks away*
ME: *confused* "huh, whatever... now where was I..." *carries on with whatever I was doing and forgets all about it*

 

[Grizzly]

Well, it's a different kind of homophobia. There are people who hate/are afraid of gays because gayness itself somehow offends them. What we have here is a fear of stigma associated with being gay. People generally prefer to associate with the majority. Since homophobia is considered "normal" in many places, people who have nothing against gays still (usually subconsciously) pretend to in order to fit in. I experienced that myself, despite the fact I'm not gay, I've found that one can fall victim to this simply by being different in any noticeable way.

Homophobiaphobia?

If people seriously thought I was gay I'd lose almost all of my friends (only two of them don't hate gays) and my social status would be ruined for the rest of high school. I've also never had a girlfriend, which would in their minds be evidence of that.

I find it hard to understand your position, because I live in an enviroment where gayness is accepted. Gay men are just like men, except that they like men, in which they are like girls. Nothing wrong with that.

It depends really on what kind of friends you have. I personally feel that if you have a good set of friends, and it would turn out that you are actually really gay, some of them might actually change their opinion about gayness, since you are probably an alright kind of guy. Perhaps your current social status can act as a catalyst, if it would indeed turn out to be the case.

Off course, it is pretty obvious now that you are not gay - in which case, your interactions with potential gay people should not matter to anyone, as you are not hitting on them or anything.

[newman]

If people seriously thought I was gay I'd lose almost all of my friends (only two of them don't hate gays) and my social status would be ruined for the rest of high school. I've also never had a girlfriend, which would in their minds be evidence of that.

Maybe it's time to ask yourself if those are really friends? A true friend is someone who's going to stand by you whether you're straight or gay - or whether people think you are or aren't. What you have there are pack mates - they'll tolerate you as long as you don't step out of line; but as you said yourself, you're worried about their reactions if you did. That's not friendship at all. And frankly, as you grow older you'll hopefully learn to stop giving a **** what people like that think of you. I know it can seem intimidating, going against the flow, and not caring what others will think of you. But do it long enough and you might actually earn some respect from people who deserve it back. What you have now isn't friendship or respect - it's merely acceptance from members of the pack too chicken**** to stand for correct beliefs because they might lose social points. People who end up being worth the air the breathe tend to learn to look past that as they grow up.

[Grizzly]

People who end up being worth the air the breathe tend to learn to look past that as they grow up.

And there are more of those people then you think.

[Lorric]

I don't like it, but the school he goes to sounds terrible. It sounds more like he has to do these things to survive, rather than he values these people as friends, though I'm not sure. The schools I went to were not bad compared to what I've heard about from city schools, yet there was still a decent amount of homophobia and bulllying going on. Most people were not bullies/homophobes, but the teachers at all the schools I went to were mostly absolutely useless at controlling bullies or even their own classrooms. I'm just thankful we didn't have any gang problems, but bullies pretty much had a free hand to do whatever they wanted. Teachers usually took the easy way out and punished victims for causing trouble if they complained rather than tackling the bullies.

[Luis Dias]

What newman said. Everytime someone (not necesarily a "friend") shouts a funny calling me a gay, I'll always offer them a blowjob or smth, and the escalation between the attempt to "shame" and my gay act sometimes reach really hilarious levels. Eventually however, they'll leave me alone, defeated, confused as to why the "shaming" never clicked. The obvious rarely reaches their minds: there would be nothing to be ashamed of.