[Apollo]

I'm really sick of all this bullying coverage. The people who try to stop it are just a bunch of adults with good intentions who fail to understand the intricacies of the situation. Nearly every teenager is a bully, and those who aren't occupy the very bottom of the social ladder, where they get picked on by all the nerds who lack the self-confidence to pick on anybody else. It can never be stopped, because it's an inherent human trait, regardless of social ability or intelligence, and being essentially immature adults teenagers are particularly fond of this activity.

I know a kid who has on occasion been the victim of bullying. There are also many times when he's ganged up on others with the very same people that pick on him. He's extremely hypocritical and insecure, excusing his behavior as "joking" but being very easily offended himself. The rest of my "friends" lack his insecurity but are still quite mean to others.

Seriously, why do people assume that most kids are nice? Most kids are mean and perfectly willing to prey on the weak, who in turn bully kids with even less self-confidence than them. I can't claim to be an exception; I've done the very same thing.

Of course, none of this makes bullying acceptable, but its existence is a hard reality that nobody can change.

I'm in high school, so I feel qualified to comment on this.
[/rant]

[An4ximandros]

 I have never bullied anyone while in (high) school. So I must be either a mutation or some eldritch aberration. My father always said I should just go and "punch the bully so he won't mess with you (me)." I never did. I never could dare to treat someone in the exact opposite way I wished to be treated. And you know what? I endured that **** for nearly 4 years of my childhood. I never gave in and I never will. I am better than that. And the teachers who never did anything after I told them? I don't even care anymore. I am past all that.

 My point is: yes, children can be dicks, you can either play alpha wolf or omega wolf. And I endured the omega, willingly. Something which I outlasted through sheer willpower. It makes me better than the typical bullies you hear about.

[Apollo]

I have never bullied anyone while in (high) school. So I must be either a mutation or some eldritch aberration. My father always said I should just go and "punch the bully so he won't mess with you (me)." I never did. I never could dare to treat someone in the exact opposite way I wished to be treated. And you know what? I endured that **** for nearly 4 years of my childhood. I never gave in and I never will. I am better than that. And the teachers who never did anything after I told them? I don't even care anymore. I am past all that.

 My point is: yes, children can be dicks, you can either play alpha wolf or omega wolf. And I endured the omega, willingly. Something which I outlasted through sheer willpower. It makes me better than the typical bullies you hear about.

Not an aberration, just an exception. Unfortunately, ninety percent of the kids I know don't have that mindset.

[Luis Dias]

Pretty much all bull****. I'm sorry Apollo, if you were a bully then that's what it was.

Bullying isn't something that is "inevitable" nor "genetic". It is something that is either socially acceptable or not. In your case, I'd guess it was an accepted reality by everyone involved. I've heard that this problem is endemic in America, for example. However, the existence of thousands of counter-examples of other cultures having a deeply ingrained behavior of not bullying shows that this is a solvable problem. It may be very hard to change a culture like that, but to call out the discussion as being stupid a priori is.... ****ing stupid.

[Apollo]

Pretty much all bull****. I'm sorry Apollo, if you were a bully then that's what it was.

Bullying isn't something that is "inevitable" nor "genetic". It is something that is either socially acceptable or not. In your case, I'd guess it was an accepted reality by everyone involved. I've heard that this problem is endemic in America, for example. However, the existence of thousands of counter-examples of other cultures having a deeply ingrained behavior of not bullying shows that this is a solvable problem. It may be very hard to change a culture like that, but to call out the discussion as being stupid a priori is.... ****ing stupid.

The desire to dominate others is a natural human trait, as we can see from nearly every civilization that has ever existed. Bullying is simply one manifestation of it; imperialism and authoritarianism are others, and they are all related.

My perspective may be skewed because I live in America, where in my experience bullies are everywhere. What are these counter-examples you mention?

[CommanderDJ]

I have never bullied anyone while in (high) school. So I must be either a mutation or some eldritch aberration. My father always said I should just go and "punch the bully so he won't mess with you (me)." I never did. I never could dare to treat someone in the exact opposite way I wished to be treated. And you know what? I endured that **** for nearly 4 years of my childhood. I never gave in and I never will. I am better than that. And the teachers who never did anything after I told them? I don't even care anymore. I am past all that.

 My point is: yes, children can be dicks, you can either play alpha wolf or omega wolf. And I endured the omega, willingly. Something which I outlasted through sheer willpower. It makes me better than the typical bullies you hear about.

Pretty much this. I was bullied for tons of reasons as well, but I never bullied anyone else. That sort of behaviour is despicable. I distanced myself from the people who did it and endured it when there was no getting out of it. I stood up for myself at times (verbally), and when that didn't work, the school system didn't help me either. Just because something's "natural" doesn't make it okay. We're not primitives.

[Luis Dias]

Pretty much all bull****. I'm sorry Apollo, if you were a bully then that's what it was.

Bullying isn't something that is "inevitable" nor "genetic". It is something that is either socially acceptable or not. In your case, I'd guess it was an accepted reality by everyone involved. I've heard that this problem is endemic in America, for example. However, the existence of thousands of counter-examples of other cultures having a deeply ingrained behavior of not bullying shows that this is a solvable problem. It may be very hard to change a culture like that, but to call out the discussion as being stupid a priori is.... ****ing stupid.

The desire to dominate others is a natural human trait, as we can see from nearly every civilization that has ever existed. Bullying is simply one manifestation of it; imperialism and authoritarianism are others, and they are all related.

Yeah, except we don't live in a dictatorship anymore, now do we? It may well be the case that these "traits" are genetic, but they aren't deterministic. At all. As I said, counter examples abound.

My perspective may be skewed because I live in America, where in my experience bullies are everywhere. What are these counter-examples you mention?

I have a bird's eye view of this because I have experienced "both worlds". I did experience 4 years of a culture completely lacking any kind of bullying at all in my infancy. And then I experienced 4 years of astonishing levels of bullying. The kids weren't that different. However, the culture was a completely different one, what was innacceptable in one was deemed innocent in the other. Where one school was capable of exerting its authority, the other had practically given up.

I haven't all the answers, but the question of the inevitability of bullying seems a trivial one: no, it's not inevitable. If you are to say that the solutions are not trivial due to the factors involved being very deep (cultural, parenting, social alienation due to urbanization, etc.,etc.,etc.) I'm with you. No they aren't easy. To say that the conversation itself is inane and dumb is however a step backwards. What a waste! What a way to give up before even starting.

Yes, bullying is a big problem, yes, we should have this conversation, and yes we should try to solve it.

[BrotherBryon]

I think I've raised this point before but it can be said again. The modern day bully has a distinct advantage that didn't exist in the past in the social network. Victims aren't just bullied in schools or other public places but in their homes as well. The social network also makes it easier for group-think bullying situations to occur. A number of high profile bullying related suicides has drawn a lot of attention to bullying and cyber-bullying in particular in last few years hence the attention it is getting.

[Apollo]

Pretty much all bull****. I'm sorry Apollo, if you were a bully then that's what it was.

Bullying isn't something that is "inevitable" nor "genetic". It is something that is either socially acceptable or not. In your case, I'd guess it was an accepted reality by everyone involved. I've heard that this problem is endemic in America, for example. However, the existence of thousands of counter-examples of other cultures having a deeply ingrained behavior of not bullying shows that this is a solvable problem. It may be very hard to change a culture like that, but to call out the discussion as being stupid a priori is.... ****ing stupid.

The desire to dominate others is a natural human trait, as we can see from nearly every civilization that has ever existed. Bullying is simply one manifestation of it; imperialism and authoritarianism are others, and they are all related.

Yeah, except we don't live in a dictatorship anymore, now do we? It may well be the case that these "traits" are genetic, but they aren't deterministic. At all. As I said, counter examples abound.

My perspective may be skewed because I live in America, where in my experience bullies are everywhere. What are these counter-examples you mention?

I have a bird's eye view of this because I have experienced "both worlds". I did experience 4 years of a culture completely lacking any kind of bullying at all in my infancy. And then I experienced 4 years of astonishing levels of bullying. The kids weren't that different. However, the culture was a completely different one, what was innacceptable in one was deemed innocent in the other. Where one school was capable of exerting its authority, the other had practically given up.

I haven't all the answers, but the question of the inevitability of bullying seems a trivial one: no, it's not inevitable. If you are to say that the solutions are not trivial due to the factors involved being very deep (cultural, parenting, social alienation due to urbanization, etc.,etc.,etc.) I'm with you. No they aren't easy. To say that the conversation itself is inane and dumb is however a step backwards. What a waste! What a way to give up before even starting.

Yes, bullying is a big problem, yes, we should have this conversation, and yes we should try to solve it.

Wow, really? You lived in a culture with no bullying? That actually makes me feel relieved.

I spend first through eight grade in a small school that was completely dominated by one clique. Everybody was a member of it, and if you weren't strong enough your "friends" would trash you mercilessly. This wasn't exactly a normal environment, but my experiences around kids from other schools and stories I heard on the news led me to the conclusion that bullying was an inescapable fact of life.

If what you say is true than it completely changes beliefs I have held since eighth grade.

I think I've raised this point before but it can be said again. The modern day bully has a distinct advantage that didn't exist in the past in the social network. Victims aren't just bullied in schools or other public places but in their homes as well. The social network also makes it easier for group-think bullying situations to occur. A number of high profile bullying related suicides has drawn a lot of attention to bullying and cyber-bullying in particular in last few years hence the attention it is getting.

That's exactly why I don't have a Facebook account. I've managed to avoid bullying in high school by not joining any group or making myself stand out in any way, and social media would attract a lot of unwanted attention.

[bobbtmann]

Society change all the time, in every way, Apollo. It's conceivable that it could change with bullying, too.

Here's some anecdotal evidence. I've noticed that the kids who were bullies at school had parents who were also pretty much bullies. Obviously their parents were more refined in their bullying, being adults and all. But in the end, the kids were very much like their parents.

So if the parents' values and opinions can change (parents being the general public), then their offspring might be better people too.

[deathfun]

People don't pick on crazy people
Make yourself out to be the guy who will pull off a school shooting, and people simply put, don't **** with you

The highschool I went to actually involved the students in the campaign to stop bullymongs (to a great deal of success). On the Anti-Bullying day our school had setup, we'd all wear pink in support of that
You'd be surprised what can happen when you get the Seniors involved in this sort of thing. Lower grades look at them and follow suit

That's most apparent when a senior stands up for someone being utilized as a proverbial punching bag. Adults talking about it and trying to make awareness about it doesn't do anything. Action from the very students who go through it does


When that was implemented at our school, I saw a whole lot less of the crap that went on when I first went there. Generally the Grade Eights came in gung ho, but realized they're complete tools shortly after.

[StarSlayer]

Now I whole heartedly agree middle school was a pain in the ass, you either had all your **** together or you were screwed.  At that point nobody really had any cliques to roll with so either you were cool or the teamless masses of unorganized fodder.  My interests tended towards the uncool and I had some ADD issues that made me impulsive and sometimes a little awkward.  Even then it was never particularly vicious or driven to the point of really screwing anyone over.

Granted my experience was before the social networking took off but by high school bullying was no longer really a mainstream thing.  Aside from a few socially inept folks pretty much everybody had a clique and those groups rarely came into any sort of conflict.  By that time I had pretty much quashed all the ADD issues and I played football and wrestled in so I hung out mainly with my friends from sports.  We generally got along with everybody and none of us intentionally picked on anybody, I doubt it would have been tolerated by the group anyway.  There wasn't really an active campaign but similar to what deathfun pointed out as a freshmen upperclassmen didn't pick on you so when you became seniors you in turn didn't bother the younger students.  As a freshmen I knew enough upperclassmen through sports that would have stepped in if I were being picked on.  In sports some folks would catch flak occasionally for things but it was nearly always a reaction for doing something dumb and more to the point repeatedly doing dumb things.

[Lorric]

Bullying is a scourge that must be eradicated.

When you find out someone has either ended their life or been murdered or crippled by bullies, so often it's a bright, intelligent, friendly person who wouldn't hurt anyone, who would have gone on to become a valuable member of society. You see their picture, and you can just feel that they were a good person. And in turn this discourages others from trying to be intelligent, it puts a stigma on intelligence and achievement or being different from the very start of life, when these people are exactly what society needs. And schools also pander to the people who don't give a crap, when they should be nurturing those who actually want to learn and make something of their life. Others won't kill themselves but will have their confidence and self-esteem shattered and not perform anywhere near as well as they would have in life if they'd been left alone, or better yet, encouraged and nurtured.

[Mongoose]

I'm in high school, so I feel qualified to comment on this.

I hate to say it, but I think this actually makes you unqualified in a certain sense, since you only have your own limited experiences and perspective to draw on.  The thing about our brains when we're teens is that we can often find it difficult to look beyond what we're going through at the moment...that's one of the things that makes bullying such a risk factor for teens, since they find it hard to see how their situation could possibly improve in the future, and it's also the reason for the implementation of the "It gets better" campaign.

Bullying's certainly a serious and widespread problem, but I don't think it's nearly as universal as you claim, at least not based on my own experience going to school in the US.  There were one or two instances I can think of where I had bullying issues in grades 1-8, and a couple others where I was ignorantly caught up in bullying someone else, but by and large I didn't experience anything widespread, and our school generally ran a tight ship.  I had pretty much zero experience with bullying in high school, and I never observed any sort of widespread clique issues...hell, I was friendly with people in all sorts of groups.  Bullying is a hard problem to eradicate, but certainly far from impossible, and creating an environment where it can't thrive is completely doable.

[Nuke]

i was bullied, once. its amazing what kind of damage you can do with a plastic spork.

[An4ximandros]

Is that you, Nuke?

[Dragon]

Bullies at my elementary/middle school were so stupid that they even failed at bullying. They were amusing until they got annoying, and by then I had about a month left in there, so I left them live. Though they did gave me a sort of "high lord of Poland" complex I had to get rid of in high school. Basically, I meet too many bugs early in my life and only a few humans (all of them girls), where my high school was pretty much all humans. That took some time to get used to.

[Sarafan]

I was bullied from age 12 to 18 on two different schools, sadly this isnt something limited to american culture.

[MP-Ryan]

Bullying is not the odd comment, or fight, or altercation.  Bullying is a chronic, persistent behaviour designed to demean another person and gain in social status of the self.  It is targeted and intentional.  Apollo seems to misunderstand the difference between bullying and normal human disagreement/aggression.

[Apollo]

If ten people repeatedly ganging up on one person and laughing at their pain isn't bullying then I don't know what is.