[General Battuta]

Look, all you need to know about NK has been written in its adopted manifesto when NK was founded in 1948, best known as "1984".

Man I don't think NK is NEARLY that clever.

[Flipside]

Thing is, it IS easy to look on NK as the kid thowing his standard tantrum he always throws when he can't get his own way.

The difference this time is China, for the first time NK has been left totally on its own, with even China voting for sanctions against them for their behaviour. NK is used to throwing all these insults from behind China where they feel safe, and now they feel more vulnerable the rhetoric is getting even more insane.

The problem is, without the weight of China behind them NK looks somewhat.. silly.. for making all these threats and gestures, and I think they are aware of that, but it makes them even more angry.

[Luis Dias]

Look, all you need to know about NK has been written in its adopted manifesto when NK was founded in 1948, best known as "1984".

Man I don't think NK is NEARLY that clever.

They mostly achieved all the purposes written in the manifesto. They are always at a state of war and non-war with SK, they control the thoughts and emotions of their population, they have their two minutes of rage against the big satan in the news, they empoverish so much their population that they can never really pose any threat to the government, etc. The quote of the boot standing on the face of the human forever seems quite the apt description of NK.

[General Battuta]

Look, all you need to know about NK has been written in its adopted manifesto when NK was founded in 1948, best known as "1984".

Man I don't think NK is NEARLY that clever.

They mostly achieved all the purposes written in the manifesto. They are always at a state of war and non-war with SK, they control the thoughts and emotions of their population, they have their two minutes of rage against the big satan in the news, they empoverish so much their population that they can never really pose any threat to the government, etc. The quote of the boot standing on the face of the human forever seems quite the apt description of NK.

Well, in one respect I hope you're dead on with the comparison: even IngSoc eventually fell.

[Luis Dias]

Nothing lasts forever. There's zero risk of that regime surviving. The problem is how it will fall, not if, and how many corpses will it drag with itself to hell.

[Phantom Hoover]

Look, all you need to know about NK has been written in its adopted manifesto when NK was founded in 1948, best known as "1984".

Man I don't think NK is NEARLY that clever.

They mostly achieved all the purposes written in the manifesto. They are always at a state of war and non-war with SK, they control the thoughts and emotions of their population, they have their two minutes of rage against the big satan in the news, they empoverish so much their population that they can never really pose any threat to the government, etc. The quote of the boot standing on the face of the human forever seems quite the apt description of NK.

Well, in one respect I hope you're dead on with the comparison: even IngSoc eventually fell.

Wait, when did that happen?

[Nuke]

The problem is how it will fall, not if, and how many corpses will it drag with itself to hell.

for the people of nk, that might be an improvement.

[General Battuta]

Well, in one respect I hope you're dead on with the comparison: even IngSoc eventually fell.

Wait, when did that happen?

The appendix explaining the principles of Newspeak is written in the past tense and in plain English.

[Phantom Hoover]

Oh, of course. (Wait, might that not just be a narrative convention?)

[MP-Ryan]

Thing is, it IS easy to look on NK as the kid thowing his standard tantrum he always throws when he can't get his own way.

The difference this time is China, for the first time NK has been left totally on its own, with even China voting for sanctions against them for their behaviour. NK is used to throwing all these insults from behind China where they feel safe, and now they feel more vulnerable the rhetoric is getting even more insane.

The problem is, without the weight of China behind them NK looks somewhat.. silly.. for making all these threats and gestures, and I think they are aware of that, but it makes them even more angry.

There are some interetsing analyses coming out about China's involvement, but a large part of the problem with NK is they are quite proud and believe themselves to be independent.  Even though everyone knows NK is utterly dependent on China, they refuse to acknowledge that which limit's Chinese options (e.g. they have to follow through on their threats).

[Flipside]

The thing is about China is the question of why did they vote in favour of those sanctions in the first place? Normally China will side with NK for both territorial reasons as well as 'pissing off the West' in general. I'm assuming either there has been an invisible souring of relations between the two countries since the death of Jong Il, or that China mas made that subtle move from viewing NK as a noisy, neighbour who can be an idiot but is, at least, on their side, to a genuine risk to National Security. If either of those are true, NK leadership probably is in full panic mode at the moment.

[StarSlayer]

Oh, of course. (Wait, might that not just be a narrative convention?)

Its a good bet that the IngSoc was already heading towards a collapse.  With the majority of the population nothing more than a stagnant caste of semi literate proles eventually there wouldn't be enough specialists left to keep the infrastructure in place.  You can already see things are in a state of decay in the book.

[StarSlayer]

The thing is about China is the question of why did they vote in favour of those sanctions in the first place? Normally China will side with NK for both territorial reasons as well as 'pissing off the West' in general. I'm assuming either there has been an invisible souring of relations between the two countries since the death of Jong Il, or that China mas made that subtle move from viewing NK as a noisy, neighbour who can be an idiot but is, at least, on their side, to a genuine risk to National Security. If either of those are true, NK leadership probably is in full panic mode at the moment.

Economics most likely.

[Flipside]

The thing is about China is the question of why did they vote in favour of those sanctions in the first place? Normally China will side with NK for both territorial reasons as well as 'pissing off the West' in general. I'm assuming either there has been an invisible souring of relations between the two countries since the death of Jong Il, or that China mas made that subtle move from viewing NK as a noisy, neighbour who can be an idiot but is, at least, on their side, to a genuine risk to National Security. If either of those are true, NK leadership probably is in full panic mode at the moment.

Economics most likely.

Possibly, it's not like NK is a financial hotbed, if there's one reason China didn't press sanctions before, it certainly wasn't because of loss of profits. Maybe China stand to gain more than they lose by saying Yes to the sanctions this time round.

[MP-Ryan]

China has actively discouraged NK's nuclear ambitions for years.  Personally, I suspect supporting sanctions this time around is a statement of "enough is enough" - China supplies something like 80-90% of the food and economic productivity of North Korea.  They want NK to start focussing on feedings its people and improving its economics and quit pouring money into nuclear weaponry.

[NGTM-1R]

The thing is about China is the question of why did they vote in favour of those sanctions in the first place?

A number of reasons.

First, China views North Korea as a client buffer state and demands some level of controllablity. North Korea has gone against their wishes quite openly and publicly of late.

Second, China has a number of ongoing feuds with Japan and regards them as the greatest regional threat. North Korea's Theater Ballistic Missile Madness: Nodong And Musudan Edition gives Japan an issue in which they can not only find common ground with other nations of the region, but even help them defend themselves. North Korea's posturing comes at an inopportune time and is generally unwelcome as it strengthens Japan's position. (An additional worry is that another missile test will result in Japan deciding it's had enough of North Korea's **** and shooting down the test launch in the Sea of Japan as threat to their shipping or territory. Japan threatened to destroy any North Korean rocket they believe will cross their territory during the last round of missile tests. This would pose grave risks to the perceived validity of China's own strategic deterrent and might cause North Korea to react violently.)

Third, actual war would result in a huge humanitarian disaster on China's doorstep and tens of thousands of North Korean refugees. If China opts to play Russia to North Korea's Poland and South Korea's Germany, they might preserve their buffer state. But they might not. If they don't, then it is very likely that twenty years on they will face a unified, capitalist, democratic Korean Peninsula sitting right next door, with a soaring standard of living compared to their own and huge economic and military muscle. They regard this outcome as a nightmare scenario for their longterm strategic planning. North Korea slinging provocations is generally unwelcome because somebody might take them serious and the next thing you know it's the German Reunification all over again. Their current level of "this would get any other country in the world whacked" provocation to the US and South Korea is something out of Chinese nightmares.

[FireSpawn]

Here's what I think is causing all of this crap:




But in all seriousness, is it naive of me to think that governments should be working to the benefit of their people and not to further consolidate their power?

[deathfun]

Depends on the type of Government

[Lorric]

I don't think it's naive, since that is the purpose of a government in theory, Firespawn. Of course, in reality...

People are supposed to put governments into power. And remove and replace them if they don't perform to the standard expected of them. Even Kings have been removed from the throne by the people. But sometimes governments put themselves into power, and/or remove the people's power so they can stay there. Then they can do whatever they want.

[deathfun]

http://gizmodo.com/5993715/how-far-can-north-koreas-missiles-actually-reach

Heh
So Alaska beware